Some very disturbing news!

[Jodi Williams]

I just learned that the "breeder" I got my puppy from has been selling sick dogs. I have read story after story about puppies dying of Distemper and Parvo. I have read stories about people finding out the breed they thought they bought isn't what they got and that some aren't the age they were told. I have also heard that she is getting the puppies from mills and is not actually the breeder. I have a knot in my stomach just thinking about it. I feel so taken advantage of and, of course, like an idiot!

That aside, I am very worried about my puppy. The "breeder" says that my puppy is 5 months old, born December 3, she was ten weeks the day we got her. She said that my puppy had one round of vaccinations in her care. My vet gave her two more rounds of vaccinations, then said she didn't need any more since she was over 16 weeks (other than rabies at 4 months). What if the breeder never gave her the first round and she has only had two? Also, is it possible for my puppy to have carried tha virus home to our house without actually catching the disease? I have heard that it can live for a year -- if we were to get another puppy, could it catch it?

Is there anything I should have her checked for? Someone else suggested a blood panel, which we thought about doing when we get her fixed. The vet suggested 6 months, but I am wondering if I should wait an extra month or two in case she is younger than we think.

Any advice or wisdome would be very appreciated! Thanks

Jodi

[aussiesmum]

First, we had a simular experince. After getting Aussie we realized the place we got her from was dodgy!!! But we progressed on. Luckily in Europe we have doggie passports so we know she got her shots. One thing you can do is call the breeder and ask for the lables form the vaccinnes she got. Usually vets give that to owners for their records (or a batch number or something). Otherwise, if she got your pup vaccinated somewhere else, then get that person's name.

Now if you don't want to tell the breeder you thing she is evil, just tell her you are going overseas and for quarentine purposes you need proof of her first round of shots. If she will not provide them, then as for the vet, etc.

Saying the above makes it sound WAY more offical (and might scare the breeder a bit than just saying you want the info (which she should give you anyway)). That sort of data is VERy commonly needed for taking your pup abroad.

I would go that route before getting too freaked out. Get all the info first, then go to your vet, explain your worries, and see what they come up with.

Good LUCK!

[Krysta Smith]

Hi Jodi,

It's not your fault the breeder was doing that. Sometimes it's hard to tell with people whether they're good or not so much, they can be really misleading no matter how much research you've done. Anyway, I think you can tell how old a dog is by when they lose their baby teeth (between 4-5 months is when they start and most are finished by about 6 months). I think most vets are able to tell how old a dog is as well. The reason my vet wouldn't spay Lola before she was 6 months was because they wanted to make sure all her teeth had fallen out first so she wouldn't have to go under anesthetic twice to get any remaining ones removed. I know some vets will spay and neuter puppies as early as 8-12 weeks.

[Luciann]

Jodi,

I agree with Lorie, call her and tell her you are going abroad that you need the shot records from when she gave the puppy shots. If she does not have them i would talk to the vet about my concerns and see what they have to say.

When i got my first chi, the lady i got him from (a sister to a really good friend of mine) gave me all his shot records and stuff. with my second one it was through my sister's female that we breed my male with so i made up the forms for shots records and all. but with breeders you ahve to be careful.

Good luck and talk to your vet

[Andre Mendizabal]

Hey Jodi, I agree too to ask the so-called "breeder" for the vaccines info... I've always been given the tags of the vaccines and a chart from the vets office were the puppy was first attended, with information such as the weight they had when they were born, name of the mother and breeder, worm tablets, etc. you should ask for one... the going abroad excuse is great...
About the amount of shots, I've read here that dogs don't actually need all the vaccines we give them, that they do fine with just a couple of puppy vaccines, but if you are still worried, ask your vet.
Young pups can also have spay surgery without further problems... but if you are worried she's carrying a bacteria or virus, do the blood tests first...
I think if the puppy was younger you could noticed it by checkin her behavior, if she didn't know bite inhibition, if she still slept a lot, if she moved her mouth like if she was trying to get fed through her mother, etc.
Good luck and I hope this "breeder" gets what she deserves!!!! :mad:

[Jodi Williams]

Thanks for all the info. I think she will get what is coming to her soon. Her shop (she owns a grooming business too) has been raided twice and there is an open investigation going on. There is a group of people who have been victimized by her that protest in front of her shop almost every Saturday.

As for my puppy's age... she turned 5 months on May 3 and hasn't lost any teeth. She definitely has a biting/nipping problem and for as easy as she has been to train in every other area, biting/nipping is still a problem. But, I have never had a puppy before, so I don't know if it is normal or not. I know that she knows that she isn't supposed to do it, but if she thinks she can get away with it, she'll try -- this is with the kids of course. She ripped two of their shirts this week!!

Anyway, I would bet that the "breeder" doesn't have any official information about the vaccinations. Someone else noted that it seems as if she just pulls dates out of the air. All she did was write in the dates on the contract, but I didn't notice where she got the dates to write down. I should have been paying more attention, but was too caught up in my puppy.

Have all puppies usually started losing teeth by 5 months?

Thanks again for all the help!

Jodi

[Rebekah Hartman]

My puppy is a rescue, so we weren't quite sure of his age, either. We figured out that we were probably on track with his age - we assumed that he was about 10 wks when we got him - when we went for his vaccinations (I think he was ~4 mos) and he was starting to lose his teeth. He's 6 mos now and has lost all of them, but I think some are still coming in (they are through the gums, but continue erupting for a while). Yours may be a little younger than you think, but keep an eye on those teeth for clues. She sounds like she's doing what Samson was around 4 months right before the teeth started to come out.

As for the mouthing, we had a very mouthy puppy, too (ruined both my husband's and my jeans). He was nuts and it got worse as the teeth fell out and new ones came in. Then, one day, (I'm not kidding it was almost like a light switch) he went to nip but didn't put any pressure on my hand. I started offering my hand and he would just put his mouth around it without pressure. Now, he's gone back to playful nipping on occasion, usually if he gets carried away. I read some books by Ian Dunbar from the library and he talks about how to work on bite inhibition.

I wouldn't worry about Parvo because it is shed in feces of the dogs that contract it and that's how it spreads - if your puppy had it, you'd know. We went through Parvo 4 days after adopting Samson and almost lost him.

We did have an issue with vaccinations after that - he was given two more boosters and rabies after being sick and he ended up having seizures. I think it may have been related to the vaccinations, so you may want to look for a holistic vet that can talk you through the options regarding vaccination so you don't end up with vaccinosis (assuming your pup did get the first round of boosters). I probably wouldn't have gone the holistic route if we hadn't had the seizure issue, but they are the ones that seem to know how to balance allopathic and homeopathic care and also seem to know more about adverse vaccine reactions (our regular vet was ridiculously unhelpful and we aren't going back there as a result). I don't know if they'd do vaccine titres with a puppy, but maybe they could test the immunity that way and see if further vaccination is necessary.

Hope that is helpful! I think I rambled a bit as it's a couple hours past my usual bedtime (too much caffeine today).

[Andre Mendizabal]

Jodi, Nala lost her teeth until her 5-6th month, there's a general rule that dogs would loose their baby teeth in their 4 month, but is not exact... all dogs are different, some develop faster than others, breed has a lot to do with it too, if she's a big girl she'll develop slower than smaller dogs. About the biting, is usual puppy behavior that will go away just by training... the thing is when puppies are really young they learn bite inhibition from their mother and littermates, if she was given to you at a younger age (4-6 weeks), most probably she didn't learned that from her litter and you had to deal with a really bad bite problem when little, but this can also happen if your girl was taken away from her litter at a younger age, no matter if she was given to you at the exact age they told you. But anyway, this ain't a big problem, since you can handle it...
I think you should focus on getting that information from the vet, most likely that will clear up all your doubts.
Good luck :D

[Amber]

The vet should be able to tell you a round about age by looking at your pup's teeth. I voluteer at an animal shelter and when we get dog's off of the street and we don't know how old they are, the shelter owner takes them to the vet and they give us a round about age to tell potential adopters.

[aussiesmum]

I would say from the perspective of knowing your dogs age, at the end of the day, it really isn't important. There are those who rescue dogs and puppies all the time and generally you only get a rough approximation. And if you are looking for the age to be able to determine when X will happen or when y will happen, don't even give it a second thought. Those guidelines are just that, guidelines! Aussie teethed (is that a word?!?) earlier than normal. We are STILL waiting for her to go into heat, which according to the guidelines she should have already done.

So, if you are really concerend about the vaccinnations, then try to follow through with that. But he age stuff, whatever she told you, if it is wrong, shouldn't be THAT far off and just ask you vet (as sally pointed out). he will give you also a rough approximation.

I would say just enjoy your pup. I know the news you heard was bad (and I know it is a bit scary) but as long as there are no serious medical concerns, just let sleeping dogs lie :lol: (Even with a pure breed pup, medicla issues COULD pop up, that is, unfortunatley, life).

[Jodi Williams]

I called the vet that did her vaccinations and he says that two rounds is enough for her. I am thinking about getting a second opinion. I have heard that most dogs get 4 rounds, so I don't really understand how two can be sufficient.

Does anyone know why the rabies vaccination is given at 4 months? If she is younger than we think, then she got that early too.

I'm hoping she is just a late teether, but I guess we will never know for sure.

Jodi

[aussiesmum]

First, I think the standard is 3 vaccinnations. PLEASE do not over vaccinate your dogs... it isn't any better to over vaccinate them. Another suggestion might be to visit a homeopatic vet and discuss with them your concern. They can help you perhaps get a less dangerous vaccination (prepared in such a way that isn't as ivasive for your dogs immune system) or help you to prepare your pups immune system for yet another round.

over vaccinating your dog can lead to some nasty things as well... In the articles section of this website there is an article about vaccinosis, which I would advise suggest you take a peek at.

note, there are people who don't vaccinate their dogs at all, but use homeopatic remedies instead. If you think at all that you may be over vaccinating her, then the homeopatic method might be the safeest method for your pup.

Also, if your pup gets a lump at the site of the rabies vaccination, then you have a reaction. otherwise, i think only time will tell.

[Amber]

Actually, I think it is 4 rounds in the U.S. I think it's 6 wks., 9wks., 12 wks., and then 16 wks. Precious was given her rabies vaccination at 12 weeks. However, it varies by when you get your dog and such. Neither Precious nor Sally had any reactions to their shots, then again I had wonderful vets who would let me take them in if I saw the tiniest little sign of anything! lol

In my case, I had to vaccinate my dogs. I live in Louisiana where there are too many cases of Parvo, Heartworm, etc. to NOT vaccinate and take the chance. I don't know if California is the same way, but take that into consideration before you think about not vaccinating, please.

[Laura Redhawk]

Hi Jodi,
Rotten situation for sure! You might want to also do your part by writing to the AKC about this "breeder" and personally, I'd contact any other groups that are willing in listen, including local media! This woman needs to be stopped NOW!

As for the teeth...Puppies are born toothless. Between three and five weeks, the puppy's set of small, sharp temporary teeth appear. In the fourth MONTH the growth of the permanent teeth begins to make the gums a little inflamed and swollen as the permanent teeth press on the roots of the temporary teeth. The signs of teething are varied. Puppies often become restless, off their food, salivating and even vomiting. Many show a desire to chew hard objects. This encourages the temporary teeth to fall out, stopping the pain caused by pressure on the roots.

Sometimes, the eruption of permanent teeth doesn't push out the temporary teeth as it should. This is a common problem with toy breeds. consult your Vet if a temporary tooth is still firmly in position when the permanent tooth looks half-erupted, he or she may want to extract the temporary tooth.

I probably would opt to run a blood panel. If the Vet Tithers, you'll also KNOW if there is enough of the puppy vaccines present in the system for protections, without needing to subject the pup to MORE vaccines.

(Some of us do NOT do yearly vaccines, as we treat with Homeopathic Remedies, which do not contain the toxins typically found in vaccines. Generally, once the puppy has had all the puppy shots, they can do without more, or you can proceed to treat with the Homeopathic Remedies if you prefer...Rabies in the USA is REQUIRED, but again, you can give a Rabies Nosode, which helps stabilize the toxins, while not interfering with the Rabies medication.)

What a horrible woman, forget the BBB, they are useless at teats on a bull...try the ASPCA, and the other folks who are speaking out...IF you are sure their stories are CORRECT!
Wags
Laura


I just learned that the "breeder" I got my puppy from has been selling sick dogs. I have read story after story about puppies dying of Distemper and Parvo. I have read stories about people finding out the breed they thought they bought isn't what they got and that some aren't the age they were told. I have also heard that she is getting the puppies from mills and is not actually the breeder. I have a knot in my stomach just thinking about it. I feel so taken advantage of and, of course, like an idiot!

That aside, I am very worried about my puppy. The "breeder" says that my puppy is 5 months old, born December 3, she was ten weeks the day we got her. She said that my puppy had one round of vaccinations in her care. My vet gave her two more rounds of vaccinations, then said she didn't need any more since she was over 16 weeks (other than rabies at 4 months). What if the breeder never gave her the first round and she has only had two? Also, is it possible for my puppy to have carried tha virus home to our house without actually catching the disease? I have heard that it can live for a year -- if we were to get another puppy, could it catch it?

Is there anything I should have her checked for? Someone else suggested a blood panel, which we thought about doing when we get her fixed. The vet suggested 6 months, but I am wondering if I should wait an extra month or two in case she is younger than we think.

Any advice or wisdome would be very appreciated! Thanks

Jodi

[Grace Erick]

Here is a site that talks about vaccinations where you can get an answer to your problems:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BeyondVaccination/

You can ask about the rabies shot here.

Bye, Grace

[Grace Erick]

Hi Jodi,

I was looking for your post, because I came across info about vaccinations. This well regarded Dr. Jean Dodds has a list of vaccines she feels should be given and I posted them under the GENERAL HEALTH topic under the subtitle, "Vaccines". I have heard that people do call her, so maybe you could give her a call and get some answers you need.

Bye, Grace