My trainer's advice

[Vicki Pagano]

:p Hello all! Hope you all had a nice and happy Mother's Day! I had a good weekend with Angel! I began obedience training and this weekend, we worked on potty training! Angel was still pooping in her crate and had begun to pee in the house again! The trainer went over her schedule, made a few suggestions about food and picking up the water. We then discussed the crate. She suggested I put Angel in a bathroom, 1/2 bath actually, with her crate, open, with a pee pee pad (just for this week anyway) and leave her there while I'm at work. She has a few of her toys and she suggested I NOT put the bed padding back in the crate just yet. I did this for several hours yesterday. No poop in crate, no pee in crate, and a CLEAN pee pee pad! Today is her first full day and I will let you know how it went. Next week, she will bring me several altered puppy diapers. She believes we should try and keep these on Angel when she is home alone, to stop her from soiling anywhere in the house, crate, etc, and to keep her in the puppy-proof bathroom whenever I am not home or whenever I can't be 100% attentive to her. I have taken everyone's advice and I have her leashed and with me all this weekend. It worked very well! I am looking forward to seeing how she makes out today. Has anyone any experience with house-training of this nature? With puppy diapers? I am interested to hear what someone else's experience is. It's really nice to have a place to go and talk about this, with people who are either having the same difficulties, or have been through it already!

[Susan Bacon]

Vicki,

This is awesome news! Congratulations--and doesn't it feel good to have a trainer who can listen and come up with personalized solutions for you. How neat--thanks for sharing! I am hoping and praying that Angel does as well today as she did yesterday. I'm also interested in your giving her the option of the crate in her puppy-proofed room, so she can use it for what it is designed for--her den! Heather on this site had suggested "Belly Bands" (little male diaper strips-HA!) for Panda to wear while crated, so I ordered some on ebay. While I was waiting for them I tethered him to me and got him out of that crate (which as you know he'd been pottying in consistently). Then we left for vacation for a week so I never tried the diapers on him.

Here's where it might get interesting to you and I apogize if I'm repeating, but it might validate what your trainer is saying: On a lark, I decided to take Panda's crate to the kennel, where he and Beans were in a 4x8 cell--uh, room. I took the bedding out and asked them to keep the crate door open at all times, and to take it out of the room permanently if they ever noticed that he'd pottied in it. Of course I called them every two days to find out if he'd been using it and they said he DID sleep in it, but never pottied! He still hasn't pottied in it in the three weeks since we've been back.

Moral of the story is that I don't know if he'd hold it if I crated him by himself for more than a couple of hours during the day. We just don't want to give him that option unless we absolutely have to! But for some reason--maybe being able to use his crate when he wanted and having more room to roam that week while he was confined--really seemed to pay off! So Vicki, my Cyber-Sister, it does seem to be getting a little easier in time, doesn't it? (Although I'm sure you'll agree that there are still moments when the stress is high--like opening the back door from being gone for a while and your stomach doing flipflops because you're praying so hard for that dry crate and clean puppy) Keep us posted on how today turned out! Fingers and toes are crossed for you both!
Hope you can relax and celebrate a clean dog tonight! :cocktail: :dog:
Susan

[Vicki Pagano]

Well, yesterday Angel did Great! No pee or poop in the bathroom, on the pee-pee pad, in the crate. A clean dog, a clean room! Of course, she wouldn't eat yesterday morning so that may have had something to do with it. Today we try it again and see what happens. Last night, I was in the basement, for like 3 minutes, and, yup, she peed and pooped in the house. I must MUST learn to put her in her "room" for even a moment when I can't be watching her. I just WANT to trust her! I guess I am helping her fail when I leave her loose without supervision. I will be more vigilant today. Another update, tomorrow! REGARDS!!!!! :cool:

[aussiesmum]

I guess I am helping her fail when I leave her loose without supervision

This is the biggest step you can make. it is great that you realize this and it will help the process go so much faster :yourock:

[Susan Bacon]

I so agree with Lorie, even though I totally concur, Vicki, about wanting to trust them and with how hard it is to "disappear" from their sight for just a minute or two!!! The trainer I'm working with is always getting on me for trying to go too fast. I get so excited when one of the boys has a small breakthrough in training and I forget all about babysteps!

Let us know how it went today--good or not so good. You're gaining on it!

[Vicki Pagano]

:D Hello!

Yesterday, Angel was in the puppy room and she DID poop, but on the pad I left down. However, she hadn't done pee-pee. My son got her out when he got home. He said she didn't even pause to say hello, but ran to the back door, where he let her out and boy did she pee! She was able to hold her pee and she made a decision to hold it, I think. Good going, Angel!

Last night, I kept on top of her, and no accidents at all in the house, she did all her business outside! Last night, she woke me twice to go. I encouraged her to go back to sleep. The result? She slept all night and held it ALL until morning! This morning, she did ALL her business outside, with me staying on top of her again! So far, so good!

I did speak with her neurologist, who told me she is pooping way too much, 5-7 times a day. I will get her stool in to the vet for a test to see what's up. I feed her Wellness, so they believe it may not be the food. I'll keep you all posted. I just wanted to crow about the progress we've made! I think once I understood my contribution to the problem, Angel picked up her part as well! Could that really be??? I hope so...

regards, :cool:

[Susan Bacon]

Fantastic!

Vicki, Please keep posting daily--I am so interested to hear how it's going since we're going through such a similar problem with our babies.

Isn't it amazing how potty-training totally transforms our lives? I think you'll appreciate this tale: Yesterday Panda and Beans spent a couple of hours unsupervised outside, where they obviously (by their happy faces and dirty beards) dined on dirt, mulch, and ????. So sometime last night Panda threw up some stuff in his crate. Of course while I was busy getting the bedding out of there this morning, he had to poop. And of course since he never tells me (the bell thing is not catching on!) I caught him in mid-act, whisked him out the door, stepped in what he'd already done and mushed up some more on his hind end as I tucked his tail under him to stop the "flow."

You know what's funny? I was so busy high-fiving him with happiness because he finished his business outside that the half-hour it took to get the poop off the carpet, my shoe, and (gad!) his hind-end meant absolutely nothing to me. Geeeeeez!!

Hope today went equally well for you and Angel!
Susan

[Vicki Pagano]

:D Hello Susan,

What a funny story! Absolutely I can relate to that! And you or I can't even stay mad because they are so darn cute!

Yesterday was an okay day. Angel pooped in the bathroom and was discovered eating it!!!! by my stepdaughter who stopped by. She cleaned it up. When my son arrived home at 3:30pm, more poop, but interestingly, no pee, both times...

She had a good evening, as I watched her all night and got her outside in time. She slept through the night, didn't wake me for potty at all! Yes!!!!

She pooped outside this morning, twice, before I left for work. We'll see what I find when I get home this afternoon. The little thing can just about leap over the gate, so I'm thinking I need to get an extension for the doorway. Otherwise, I'm liable to find yet another confetti party when I get home.

So, this is what I've learned so far,

1. I must watch her every minute, to catch her when she's ready to go pee and poop. This will minimize and/or eliminate accidents in the house.

2. If the crate isn't working, try something else, like a puppy-proof room.

3. Don't be afraid to take a step or two backwards. Training a puppy isn't a linear thing and there can be lots of starts and stops along the way. The wisdom is to recognize going too far, too fast.

4. I SO want another one, but I will have to wait until Angel "gets it".

5. Money is wisely spent on a trainer when I have no experience training a dog.

6. This internet site and the people on it are indispensible!!!! Thanks to you all!

regards,
:wave:

[Vicki Pagano]

Just a quick update on the progress?! Angel and I had a session with the trainer Saturday. She brought over two doggie diapers for Angel to wear. I have to stitch up the rear part a bit to contain her poop, but otherwise, they fit. The trainer figures if Angel soils in the "house" when I'm home, or even when I'm not home, she will have the unpleasant experience of "wearing" it until I get home to clean her up. The trainer feels this may speed things along. I ran this by my neighbor, who checks on her every day I'm at work and lets her out to "go". The neighbor doesn't want to deal with the diaper. Even though I've told him he can leave her in her room, leave her in her dirty diaper, he wants nothing to do with it. It's tough because I left the diaper off her yesterday and she was clean all day!!! I guess I'll leave the diaper off and see what happens. Darn, this is so exasperating!!!! Meanwhile, she is still not telling me she has to go other than standing by the back door, staring outside. Thanks for the ear, folks! I'll keep you posted. :)

[Vicki Pagano]

Hello, This is Angel's Momma, frustrated to the max!

She soiled yesterday, twice! And peed as well, while I was at work. My neighbor, who came over at 11:30 am, said she had already went on her pad. So, we are moving along, but I'm not sure what direction we are actually moving in. I think maybe she will always believe it's okay to poop in the house. Should I give up?

:(

[Susan Bacon]

Vicki,

Don't give up if outside pottying is what you really want Angel to achieve. I know folks who are proud that their dogs have learned to go in and out because they work or because they don't want to fool with putting them out in messy weather, but if you want her to go outside all the time then you've to stick to it and have faith that your consistency will kick in one of these days, because it will!

Easier said than done, I know. And that doesn't ease your frustrations right now either, does it? I have no doubt that if my hubby and I were gone all day that we would be experiencing similar problems with Panda-STILL. As it is, you know all about our frustrations and setbacks, and I am making sure we're available for his housetraining pretty much 24/7!

So please stay the course, stick with it, and devote all your attention to reinforce the training when you can in the evenings and especially on the weekends. I know you want to set the goal for outside 100% of the time. Are you still tethering her to you when you're home? That was a pain, but sure seemed to help us. Hang in there for a relatively small amount of time longer. P.S. Panda peed at the backdoor again this morning fight after a 20-minute walk. Does that make you feel better???
:rofl:

[Rebekah Hartman]

Don't give up. We had the same pee/poop in the crate problem and I felt like it was two steps forward, three steps back. In fact, we even had a regression incident a couple weeks ago after about 6 weeks of no problems. I thought we'd never have a dog that would keep a clean crate. It is totally frustrating, but it will gradually get better until one day you'll be like, "Hey, we haven't had any accidents in three weeks!"

We had 7-8 poops a day, too and apparently there was nothing wrong with him (we had him on Chicken Soup at that point). I started feeding Innova because it has more calories per cup and I could feed him less. It helped, but I think it also just "clicked" that he could wait because he still poops 3-4 times a day, but waits until he's outside to do it. I told my husband I don't care if he poops 12 times a day as long as he does it outside (although in reality I do monitor things more closely than that and make sure he's not starting to go too much).

Some dogs just catch on much slower, probably due to not learning very young that it's better to have a clean bed. We tethered when home, crated when away (with no bedding because we found that he got to a point where he'd soil it and kick it out of the way), vigilantly watched behavior when home and a strict feeding schedule with no water after 6:30 pm. We also threw parties in the yard when he went there (I eventually used a clicker and food treats), so that he'd like going outside better than in crate. It did work, although it took longer than I'd have liked. I've never heard of a dog that didn't "get it" eventually, though.

Hang in there, I know it's utterly exasperating. Keep us informed of how things are going.

[Valerie K]

Hey, don't give up. She will get it. Eventually. Or mostly even. You know it took my two forever and they still need to be checked on when they are hanging out in another room for a while. We have changed their routine a bit lately as I have started taking classes at night and have been going out more during the days as well, so we are having a few incidents inside because they are experiencing a bit of stress. If Daddy falls asleep on the couch before I get home and someone has to pee, well... let's just say they haven't been waiting patiently.

BTW, those doggie diaper things you posted about. I am not 100% sure but I think they can contribute to UTI's especially in dogs that have had a prior UTI.

Keep at it. She will get it. And lose it. And get it again.

[Susan Bacon]

Vicki,
Valerie and Rebekah are so right! Valerie's story with her little ones is the most inspiring I've heard yet. If she could do it, we can! Hang in there yourself Valerie and good luck with your night classes....

Ya' know, I don't know if the air in NewYork and Texas are on the same plane or there's a full moon or what, but after I wrote you that Panda had an accident this morning (for your amusement), he had another this afternoon. Then when I just took him out I noticed that he lingered on the patio while Beans peed in the grass (good Beans!). Eegad! A third accident after many many days of none! And geez-he hasn't peed on the patio in months!

I thought we'd graduated from the potty-leash and potty-rewards, but looks like it's time to fill my pocket with cookies again :( :confused: :eek:

So like someone just posted: two steps forward, three steps back some days. We'll do this Vicki! Just hang tight!!!
Susan

[Vicki Pagano]

Hello Susan, Valerie and Rebekah

Yesterday was a GOOD! Day!!!!! NO ACCIDENTS!!!! YIPEEEEEEE!!!!!!

My neighbor let her out, she hadn't done anything in the bathroom on the pads. I got home, she relieved herself outside. I again stayed on top of her and it was a great day here in Coram, NY!!!!

Valerie, I never thought about the diapers and possible UTI's. I will discuss this with the vet. She has an appt tomorrow for blood work to check her medication levels. Thanks for pointing that out to me. I haven't used the diapers yet, like I have stated. Mostly, because my neighbor, "uncle" Jerry to Angel :-), doesn't want to deal with them. Maybe that was a good thing.

I really appreciate the support you have given to me! It really feels better to know that I'm certainly not alone in this struggle.

My stepdaughter was watching my cat, Shemp, play with Angel on the stairs. She is encouraging me to purchase a video camera and send the tape into AFV's. I must admit, they are too cute together!

Susan, well, what can I say! I love the stories you post! They give me a much needed laugh and remind me to enjoy the puppy that she is, in spite of the frustrations that come with that!

Hope we all have a good day today! Keep me posted!

regards :rainbow:

[Laura Redhawk]

Hi Vicki!
As a trainer, I don't usually suggest diapers, only because they don't TEACH the dog ANYTHING AT ALL towards making the goal and if left on too much and used, can set the dog up for an infection.

As doubtless your trainer will agree, the only way to really teach a dog what we want them to do, is to do the work! It's especially challenging with a young dog or puppy as WE do usually need to GO TO WORK ourselves! It's HARD to train, especially HOUSE TRAIN...when we can't be there with the dog to reinforce the correct behaviors and support them in NOT having accidents!

You mostly are limited to making the most of any time you do have available to spend with your puppy. Potty 101 (I believe it's in the Articles Section) will support YOU, as it sounds like you are on the right path over all. Remember, the LAST THING little Angel wants to do is displease you, but lets face it...we don't speak the same language, nor do we have the same VALUES or ideas about the act of going potty!

This is why we keep the focus OFF of accidents...we don't want to punish and make the dog frightened, cause stress (which usually increases accidents more than cures!) we want to make doing the behavior CORRECTLY such a Thrill that the puppy becomes ADDICTED, MOTIVATED and FOCUSED about remembering and doing the correct potty behavior...hence the Potty Party!

Wags
Laura

:p Hello all! Hope you all had a nice and happy Mother's Day! I had a good weekend with Angel! I began obedience training and this weekend, we worked on potty training! Angel was still pooping in her crate and had begun to pee in the house again! The trainer went over her schedule, made a few suggestions about food and picking up the water. We then discussed the crate. She suggested I put Angel in a bathroom, 1/2 bath actually, with her crate, open, with a pee pee pad (just for this week anyway) and leave her there while I'm at work. She has a few of her toys and she suggested I NOT put the bed padding back in the crate just yet. I did this for several hours yesterday. No poop in crate, no pee in crate, and a CLEAN pee pee pad! Today is her first full day and I will let you know how it went. Next week, she will bring me several altered puppy diapers. She believes we should try and keep these on Angel when she is home alone, to stop her from soiling anywhere in the house, crate, etc, and to keep her in the puppy-proof bathroom whenever I am not home or whenever I can't be 100% attentive to her. I have taken everyone's advice and I have her leashed and with me all this weekend. It worked very well! I am looking forward to seeing how she makes out today. Has anyone any experience with house-training of this nature? With puppy diapers? I am interested to hear what someone else's experience is. It's really nice to have a place to go and talk about this, with people who are either having the same difficulties, or have been through it already!

[Susan Bacon]

Vicki,

Laura's article on Potty 101 is the greatest. I love her positive spirit!

Okay, so how's little Angel doing? How did things go through the weekend? Panda hasn't had an indoor accident since I last wrote :tup: but now he's decided it is just fine & dandy to pee on the patio.

Uh, Wrong!

It's his place of choice (he smiles when he does it), so now we're back to carrying him straight to the grass and reinforcing all over again.

I have to tell you that all along I've been thinking that your avatar was a picture of Angel! I was so impressed with your photography skills and have often wondered how you got her to pose so well. Then of course when I updated the boys' avatar this weekend, I happened to see your Angel in the pre-fab photos!!!

Let's hear it for gullibility! And let us hear about Angel's progress this weekend--I hope you're doing well.

Susan

[Vicki Pagano]

:wink: Hello Susan,

Gullible, nah! Angel does look remarkably like the photo though. I think I stated that somewhere as a sort of disclaimer, but probably not in the posts you've been reading :-)

Glad to hear Panda continues to make progress. There is something to be said for consistency here. OURS!! I mean, it seems Panda got it, but then decided to do it his way. Now, you go back to square three and reinforce where he is supposed to go.

I had all kinds of company yesterday. She made not one accident in the house! I thought for sure with all those people, she'd just go on the tile or rug, like she has been. But she was good!

I must say, it has been an up and down weekend. Friday night, she kept waking me to go outside. I kept telling her to go back to sleep. She was persistent, so at 3:22 am, I let her out. She turned on the stoop and looked at me, "aren't you coming too?", she seemed to say. When I didn't budge, she began to whine and bark to come back in, with no pee or poop getting done. I had a civil service test the next morning and decided I needed sleep. I put her in her "room" and let her do whatever she wanted in there. I went back to sleep. She pooped and peed on the pads that night.

Saturday, it wasn't too bad. But in the evening, right in front of me, she peed on the rug! No circling, just squat and pee! I lost my mind! I'm like, "I'm right here, you couldn't tell me??????" ugh!!!!!!!!


Laura, as far as the diapers are concerned, I've still not used them. I did see my vet Friday and asked him about them. It turns out he has a beagle that won't housebreak! Gee, if HE can't do it, what chance have I got? Anyway, he tried the diapers himself and they had no effect. I asked him about infection and he told me if she was changed often, it will lessen the chance. I'm still not sold on them, so I haven't used them yet. Thanks for the input, though. I appreciate anybody's opinion. It seems we all have different experiences when it comes to housetraining.

On the other hand, she is doing well in the "sit.... down" department. So much so that if I give her one command, she does both! She's pretty bright, I'll tell ya!

Let me know how it's going, Susan,

:cool:

[Monika Lisak]

I personally don't really see how the diaper would work it's the same concept as the crate, sitting in their own mess, i'm not a trainer though so maybe i'm not seeing something. I have crate trained all three of my dogs and it has worked wonders for potty training, no messes, except the occasional one when i have not been as attentive as I should have been.

See my dogs crates adjusted to their ages, i'm not sure how old your pup is, but i would buy a cage that would be suitable for their adult years and then divided it up so that when they were really smal it was cozy and den like and then made it bigger as necessary, anyways they learned that this is their personal space and they won't mess it up, ofcourse when they were teeny tiny i would let them out every 2-3 hours i didn't work full time then, and as they got older they were able to hold it for longer now they all can wait up to 8-9 hours, 2 are no longer in crates but one just loves it it's her special place and it makes her feel safe, otherwise she gets very nervous and starts to chew on my walls. If you were to close Angel's crate does she scream and cry? or you just don't want her to go in there. Sometimes if they do it once or twice and see how unpleasant it is without a getaway they won't go in there bed again?? and do you make a big deal when she does go outside this really helped mine, now all i have to say is go pee pee and all three squat just like that~!

[Vicki Pagano]

Hello Monika, I DID try crate training her. The problem is, Angel has had 2 medical conditions, which caused her to be hospitalized 9 times the first 6 months of her life. She was in their crates just going to the bathroom so much, that I think she thought that's just how it is. I can't make the crate smaller, because she is epileptic. I put the insert in, put her in, and saw that, should she have a seizure while crated, her legs would extent out the bars. If you've ever seen a grand mal with dog paddling, you'd know that her legs sticking out the crate bars would be a perfect scenario for broken legs! It's not a chance I want to take. :(

We have our good days and bad days, with many accidents sprinkled in between. The very MINUTE my back is turned, that's when she goes.

On a lighter note, she has been seizure-free for over 2.5 months now.We will keep on trying! I must say, she does do her business more outside than inside, so that must be progress, right? Thanks for your input, Monika,

[Monika Lisak]

oh that's rough poor little muffin, I hope i didn't offend you in anything I wrote I was just sharing what I had gone through. Well with time hopefully it will get better! All the best of luck and whatever works, run with it!

[Sherri]

Vicki, Hang in there. The training will come. It will happen at the point just when you are ready to give up, you feel that your dog should be trained, there is no excuse, and then all of a sudden one day, it happens. Accident free. That one day turns into two, two into three and so on.. The still can be an occasional accident (Baxter had been accident free for 3 weeks, then had an accident, then back to accident free). We made sure not to make a big deal when cleaning up the accident, and had a party outside the next time he went.
I lost my patience when he was 6 months old.. I was ready to give up. I didn't remember my moms dogs taking so long, what was wrong with me or my dog? What were we doing wrong? I was just about to go back to the way my family trained dogs, something we said we would not do.. I almost punished, spanked and rubbed his nose in it, but I didn't. I talked to our trainer, my vet and others and was told that each and every dog is different, be patient and your dog will get it. I didn't like that answer from anyone too much.
What made the most sense to me was what my vet did say.. Most dogs do not fully develop their organs/minds until they are 14-18 months old and this could be the reason they are not "getting it". I still didn't like knowing I had a possible 12 more months of this, but figured that Baxter didn't choose to come with me, I choose him so I was in it for the long haul.
It finally turned around one day, Baxter was not having accidents while we were gone. I still do drive home at work, which frustrates me some times.. How can he hold it for 7-9 hours overnight when we sleep, but can't hold it for a work day? But I figure that day too will come..

Hang in there and good luck!!
Sherri and Baxter

[Susan Bacon]

Terrific, positive, and uplifting message Sherri!

Kudos to you and to Baxter--"Baxter didn't choose to come with me, I chose him so I was in it for the long haul."

Awesome!

Susan

[Vicki Pagano]

Hello Monika,

Oh NO! Nothing you said upset or offended me in any way!!!! That's what I don't like about the net, you can't see people, hear their voice inflections or see body language. I know that most people here don't know Angel's full background. I take whatever advice may be applicable and leave the rest as what worked for them. I'm so glad you posted your advice! Please don't think I have hurt feelings.

I will write more later, I'm late, LATE! for work!!!!!! See you later :cool:

[Vicki Pagano]

Well, several accidents over the weekend, one right in front of me. Just squatted and peed before I could even think about it. My son, however, sees her signals. He said she runs back and forth from the kitchen to the living room back to the kitchen, walks halfway to the door, and then circles. I'm missing it! What is it I don't get???????? HELP!!!!!! :confused: :banghead:

[Valerie K]

I am completely guessing here, but Zoey, who hadn't had an accident in a long time, did the same thing not too long ago. She also asks to go out sometimes, circles around for a while, and then wants to come back in w/o doing anything. My suspicion, with her anyway, is when a dog has ongoing health issues, that they don't always catch on to what their own bodies are doing. I swear sometimes she looks as surprised as we are when she does have an accident. When Esmee, who overall these days is pretty healthy, needs to go out, she tells me, goes out and goes potty right away. Zoey always circles around, stops, scratches, circles some more, gets distracted, and finally will go (or not). I think sometimes she doesn't really know if she has to or not, and then sometimes, it is too late, especially if no one is watching her carefully. She also doesn't seem to have the same control that Esmee does, and can't wait, or doesn't realize she can wait. Anyway, this is just what I think about Zoey and it helps me to not get upset with her when there is an accident. Remember, it took her almost 14 months to become pretty reliable. And all bets are off if she is really feeling poorly for some health reason or other. I don't even count those as accidents.

During that period from about 8 months old, when she finally re-understood to a degree what she was expected to do and she had recovered from her first bout of major kidney problems, and about 14 months when she became pretty reliable, I was the only one who knew consistently when she needed to go out because I watched her carefully all the time. Anyone else "watching her" well let's just say there were more misses than catches. And everyone got cranky in the house, me because she had accidents when anyone else was in charge, them because I drove them nuts with the "are you watching her" routine, and her, because she just couldn't figure out what to do and when to do it.

Anyway, this is just my experience with my dog who has some serious health issues and has had them since puppyhood.

[Rebekah Hartman]

Are you recording exactly when she does go? I know, it's a little intense - we had to do this with bowel movements for Samson because we had to figure out a pattern to keep him from going in the crate. For a couple weeks, I'd come in and write down the time of day and what he did - if he had an accident while I was away I'd write the window of time when I was gone. For me, this really helped figure out a pattern so that I started to know what to look for as far as his signals.

He's had some health issues in the past, too - Parvo at 10 weeks and two seizures around 5 months, but he hasn't had any since we did a vaccinosis regimen (no idea if that is what helped, but that was the only "intervention" we tried). The health stuff does make everything a little trickier. Hang in there!

[Marsha]

Spanky took quite a while to catch on to the pottying thing, but I think he's finally there. He has just turned a year old, and I can't remember the last time he had an accident. It's probably been a month, maybe longer. I thought I was doing all the right things, but by the time he was 6 months old and still having accidents every day, I wasn't sure. He did fine in his crate....it was the rest of the time. I finally got a timer and set it to remind me to let him out since he wasn't going to tell me. I started with every hour. At 6 months old, he should have been going longer than an hour, but I started at square one. Unless he was crated, he went out every hour. Then, every week I increased the time. In a couple of months or so, we had increased the time that he could go to every 3 hours. I was STILL setting the timer. In fact, he had gotten to where he went to the door when he heard the timer go off. Our problem was in the evenings he would stil have accidents. We couldn't go 3 hours in the evenings, but even if we tried to let him out every hour, we would still occasionally get accidents. I'm not sure why, but he always has had more problems in the evening with every behavior problem we deal with. He's like a kid and gets overly tired. Now, the timer is a thing of the past and he hasn't had any evening accidents either in a while!! It just seemed to gradually kick in. We'd go several weeks without an accident, and then one evening he'd have 2 accidents in a 90 minute period.....just about the time we thought he was over accidents. Even now, we're reluctant to think he's completely done. Also, he has started barking to be let out when he needs to go, too!!!

[Susan Bacon]

Marsha,
I am inspired with Spanky's progress--barking to go out, no less! That is terrific. More proof that some dogs take longer to learn the ropes and to gain muscle control. I keep reading that it takes at least 14 months for the brain as well as the muscles to fully develop and start going in sync with each other-lol!

Keep hanging in there Vicky! Marsha's suggestion of setting a timer when you're home is a great one, whether Angel needs to go or not. Lord knows Panda goes out every 2 hours and the neighbors are getting tired of my lilting voice repeating "Go Potty, Go Potty!" all day..... Like Valerie, though, I am past the point of caring and just look forward to the day that my husband and I stop jumping up at mealtimes (our own) to make sure he's not standing at the backdoor with his little legs crossed!

Have a good day!
Susan

[Susan Baxter]

I certainly feel everyone's pain. Just a few months after our 14 month old "got it" we decided it would be the right time to bring home a puppy! She's 13 weeks old and has been home with us for two weeks.

I had these grandiose hopes that little Sedona would simply follow her half sister McKenna out the doggie door and learn from her in, oh, maybe a week's time. Can you all say.....moron!!! Yep, that's me! :-) Although the two pups dearly love to play with each other and nap near each other, when it comes to doggie door time it's definitely every man for himself or every pup for herself. Thier breeder (who's wonderful!!) already has the pups familiar with the whole doggie door routine but this little girl prefers our carpet. She gives a great signal when she has to poop. Great, swooping circles that we can't miss. Pee, on the other hand, is an afterthought for her. If she's in the middle of the "run like $ell" game she simply squats and goes. So, we're back to square one.

I figure by the time Sedona "gets it" it'll be time to replace the carpet anyway.....

Susan

[Jody Henderson]

Hi! I just found this web site and it's so great reading everyone's experiences. We have a 9 month old beagle and even though beagle's are smart, it's taken her a while to get the potty training thing. I shouldn't say potty training, more like crate training. She did great when we brought her home. She learned very quickly not to go on the carpet and we even had her ringing a bell to go out which was great until she figured out we'd take her out each time so she decided to use it for play time too and would ring it every time she was bored and wanted to play outside. So the bell is gone and now she's barking when she needs to go out. It's working great but our problem was that she would not stop going in her crate. At first she would just pee, never poop so we had the vet check her out and everything was ok and then all of the sudden (at about 5 mos.) she started pooping in it. We had gotten her a bigger crate so we put a divider in it and it didn't matter. It wasn't every day and never at the same time. Talk about frustration. We would drive all the way home from work to let her out and she wouldn't go but guess what we'd find when we got home. I read some of your experiences and decided to put her in the laundry room with her crate with the door open and she's doing great! We're going on 2 weeks with no poop in the crate or on the floor of the laundry room. She is still peeing but yesterday when I got home the only pee was on the laundry room floor, not in her crate and it was still warm so I think she had held it but got excited when she heard me come in and went. We'll see how she does today! It's such a relief to not have to clean up poop though! She is however chewing on the bottom of the door frame but I'm willing to deal with that for now. Does anyone have any experience with putting their dog back in the crate after they get used to not going in the puppy proof room? I would love to work her back in to staying in the crate while we're gone but I don't want her to revert back to her old ways of pooping in it. Thanks for the advice!
Jody

[Vicki Pagano]

Welcome, Jody!
I'm so glad you wrote! I wish I had better advice to give to you, but unfortunately, Angel goes in her crate, so I gave her a half-bathroom and put down pee-pee pads. She goes on an average of 3 times per week on the pads. Some days, she doesn't go in there at all. Can't for the life of me figure out why... Angel has made progress with pee-pee outside. When I take her, I say, "hurry up, go pee-pee" and now, almost immediately, she does! I'm proud of that! Good luck with the training and you are in the right place. There are a wonderful group of people who "live" here and are willing to lend a helping hand to others!

Susan, I'm hanging in there! What choice do I have? :-) This, too, shall pass, right? I, too, was thinking that once Angel got the housetraining down pat, I would get a puppy and she would assist in the training of the pup. Okay, the chorus of moron for me too, then! :-) It really sounds so simple obvious that one dog will follow the other. Your message was just what I needed to hear right now! Angel is doing about the same. Fewer accidents in the house, because I've been vigilant in keeping my eye on her. The bathroom, however, is another story. Her "room" in the bathroom was a disaster of a mess yesterday. Not completely her fault, though. My neighbor apologized for not coming over and letting her out, he was "involved in a project". So, my son came home to a huge mess! He said it was loose and all over the place. He cleaned it up, bless him, even though I told him he could leave it for me. When Angel "goes" outside, she makes a big deal of it by doing the puppy dance. I make a big deal out of it too! She understands that I'm happy about it. When she has an accident, she doesn't dance, and actually will look at me with eyes that say, "sorry, couldn't help it, Mom", and she'll hang her head as she runs under the table. (probably a reaction from when I yelled at her for her accidents the few times I lost it. Bad Mommy!) It's like she knows but hasn't chosen to do anything about it.

Rebekah, I take her out every two hours when I'm home. I actually HAVE written down when she goes for two weeks straight and I know there are several times she HAS to poop - 6:00 am, 3:00 pm and 8:00 pm. I make sure she goes out around those times. The peeing is about every two hours on the nose. I think it is a matter of becoming more keyed into Angel than I am already. I'm working on it!

Valerie, I can certainly relate to having others "watch" Angel when I'm not around. My son does NOT watch her the way I do, so there are some additional accidents that I SWEAR wouldn't have happened if I were there. Or maybe that's my ego, who knows. I just know it's frustrating to me to have others involved who aren't consistent with what I do. I feel it "lengthens" the process.

Thanks to all who wrote, I'll keep you posted!
;)

[Lesly Stevens]

I personally feel that the use of diapers serves no one. Pee Pee Pads are usually scented to stimulate a puppy to pee on them, so placing one in her crate defeats the entire purpose of crate training in general, and the usefulness of crates in housetraining. You end up confusing the dog, and will prolong the housetraining process.

Tethering Angel to you while you're home, so you will be aware by her body language when she has to go, is my favorite method, along with crate training. While you're at work, have someone come to the house to let her out - every 4 hrs. should be often enough. I don't know how old Angel is, but since she's attending obedience class, she's no wee puppy, and should be able to go 4 hrs. without having to pee/poop.

Did I read that Angel poops 5 - 7 times a day, and is on Wellness dog food? I'd take a stool speciman to the vet. Wellness IS high in fiber, so it MAY play a part in the frequency, but, unless you leave food and water in her crate, she shouldn't be pooping that often. Try giving her a tablespoon of canned pumpkin a couple of times a day. NOT pumpkin pie filling! Just plain pumpkin. My dogs eat it off the spoon, but some won't, so mix it in with her food.

Keep up the good work, and posting about progress!

Lesly, Maddy, & Bo

[Vicki Pagano]

Hello Lesly, I have been posting here for about two months, I think. I've been stumped by Angel's poop cycle and her reluctance to housetrain. I have discussed her poop with the vet, and brought him a stool sample (normal). I have never put a pad down in her crate to use for the bathroom. I don't feed her outside her two meals, and she doesn't eat them regularly, but skips at least one several times a week. I don't over feed her as well, adhering to the 1/2 cup 2x a day the vet recommends. Angel is 8 months old and weighs 12 lbs. The blame for her frequent stools has been placed on the four different medications she takes. Angel has epilepsy and syringomyelia. She had skull/brain surgery at 3.5 months old. and has been hospitalized approximately 9 times. I believe the hospitalizations at such a critical time taught her to "go" in the crate. The crate is completely useless. I have puppy-proofed a 1/2 bathroom, where her crate is there, open, water is there, and a pee-pee pad. Some days she makes a mess, others, like the last 2 days in a row, she has been clean. She CAN hold it, but she doesn't know she HAS to. My trainer suggested that the poop eating she now does is her attempt to hide her pooping in the house, because she only eats it when she poops inside. when she goes outside, she doesn't pay any attention after she is done. Your suggestion of giving her pumpkin is the second time I've heard that so I'll definitely give that a try :-) As far as consistency in housetraining, I can be consistent when I am home but my son doesn't always follow what I do. That being said, she has less accidents with HIM than with ME! He can read her body language. I am having difficulty with this and rely pretty much on the time. I know what times she usually goes and she is kept on a pretty consistent schedule. Thanks for all your suggestions. I'll let you know how we're doing.