Raw Bones?

[Peggy Jensen]

I have been reading about giving your dog raw bones as a special treat. Maybe it is an "old wives tale", but I was always told to never give your dog raw meat of any kind. Do you make sure all the meat is off the bone before you give it to them and are they supposed to actually eat the bone or just chew on it for awhile. It seems like chicken and turkey bones they would crunch right down.
I am always looking for healthy ways to keep my 3 yr. old mini-schnauzer busy, so any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

[Jo Russell]

Hi, Peggy. This is going to be long and contain much more information than you were after, will also be controversial and I likely wont come back to argue about things if anyone wishes to debate any of my points. This last not only in the spirit of DB, but also because I believe we are all responsible for making our own choices well informed ones and that when it comes to diametrically opposed pov's, neither view is necessarily the one ultimate truth. Not the most coherent "essay" either, (sorry, I haven't time to hang it together better), but some things to think about for anyone who's interested in this subject in broader terms. If you want, Peggy, you can just head on down to the **, where I get specific and answer your actual question about which bones might be good for your dog.

Regarding "old wives tales", I'm inclined to think that what is sometimes referred to that way might simply reflect what was best scientific knowledge at one time, sometimes even what was commonly held belief in regional terms. I think we can all see, too, how science and medicine advance and change. This is true in regards to what we know in human terms. eg. Atkins diet controversy, the evolving "food pyramid", that homes intent on creating a sterile environment sometimes produce children whose immune systems are less robust than children from homes not so obsessed with killing every last little possible germ but are still reasonably hygienic.

If you think back to your grandparents (or even great grandparents' time, if you're not so old), there was no such thing as kibble, no processed food in any form, never mind the many high quality, almost gourmet, often biologically appropriate dog foods we can choose from nowadays. What did dogs eat then? Probably mostly leavings from our human meals? Small animals they caught themselves? Animals we killed and cut up for them?

Personally, I was raised rurally so I know where meat really comes from (not the supermarket!), and although I'm vegetarian these days, I grew up seeing animals slaughtered and butchered at home, for humans and dogs. So maybe it hasn't been so difficult for me to get into the idea of raw feeding dogs, because I'd seen it already. Though there wasn't anything "scientific" about the way my Dad fed raw meat to his team of working dogs, it was just what you did. Raw feeding now has a whole body of scientific knowledge behind it, and there are some vets who are advocates of raw feeding.

Which leads me to another point I think worth making: in most parts of the world vets are taught what they know about dog nutrition by manufacturers of dog food... a vet may never make it their business to specialise in dog nutrition nor bother to learn much about raw feeding, which is an entirely appropriate way of meeting a dog's nutritional needs. Please don't think that I haven't any respect for vets, I do. However, I think it's important to be aware that they might not, and maybe couldn't possibly, individually, know everything there is to know in their own field of expertise.

The vaccination debate somewhat illustrates my point about the evolution of knowledge. (Though many "dog" people don't vaccinate at all, opting for homeopathic nosodes and/or treating any disease which does occur (parvo, for instance) by natural methods. This is generally an aspect of Natural dog management and health which owners adopt in addition to or alongside a raw/natural diet). Anyway, here in NZ, vets will shortly, this year, apparently, begin to recommend that vaccination boosters for cats and dogs no longer need to be given yearly - I believe that every 2 or three years will become the new standard, though I am aware of research which shows 3 or 5 years immunity can be achieved with a single shot, depending on which disease we're talking about. I'm sure these changes will have arisen from research generated into the efficacy of vaccinations over time (particularly as these products have changed and maybe improved) and concern from animal owners everywhere about some of the problems routine vaccination can cause. Note: We don't have rabies here, so that one's a complete non-issue for us.



**A lamb rib or chicken wing would be appropriate bone for your mini-Schnau. Not only is the size right; that is, in proportion to the size of your dog it's also not too tough a bone to start out with or feed occasionally in the longer term if you intend to just feed from time to time for recreation... imagine how out of proportion a cow leg bone would be for him, quite comical too! The bigger weight bearing bones are the more common purely recreational bones for raw fed dogs, but might not be best to start with, especially for a small dog (even a chicken leg is a harder bone).

You could trim almost all the meat off if you wish. I would definitely trim the fat off, especially if it's a particularly fatty piece.

If he's a gulper, you know, a dog who all but inhales his food, you might like to hold one end of the bone until you become more comfortable that he's not going to choke himself. Definitely be nearby when he's eating it. Bear in mind that a dog can choke on kibble too and that as natural scavengers they're inclined to scoff down all sorts of things which could be dangerous, given half a chance. There's an element of risk in most everything we and our dogs do.

He may chew up the whole bone, though often there will be a few "leavings" (small, maybe sharpish bits that the dog chooses not to consume). Dogs, almost without exception, do know how to eat bones. Even if your dog has never had one before, he will likely tackle it like a pro. Dogs have been eating raw bones since forever. Their system is designed for the consumption of raw bones; they have strong stomach juices which can digest bone, and not only tolerate but generally remain well with greater concentrations of salmonella and e.coli than human body can cope with. Most literature will tell you to practice the same "good" food handling and storage techniques you would use for your human family's food. That's all that's required if your dog is generally healthy and his oral health is resonably good.

It can be really nerve-wracking giving your dog bones, I know. I started out with chicken necks for my Pomeranian because they are not even "proper" bones and therefore seemed less risky to me. Truthfully, they were less trouble to him than kibble to eat and I really didn't get an appreciation for what he could do with a bone until I began to give him things like rib bones.

Packages of "soup bones" available from some supermarkets and butchers can be a good choice. Usually not too meaty, and a variety of types of bones which could be free-frozen and removed one at a time to thaw for the next day delight of your pooch.

You know, I think that will more than do. Hope there's something helpful in there somewhere. You needn't, and maybe shouldn't, just take my word for it. There's a ton of information in books and on the 'net on this subject.

[Peggy Jensen]

Wow! Thanks for all the info, I know a lot more now than I did before, but am still willing and would like to read the opinions of others if anyone has one.

[heathea]

Yup, I feed raw bones to my dogs along with kibble. They get a new bone approx 1 time per week, I feed random stuff such as soup bones, lamb bones, and cow femurs depending on what I can get for cheap or free. I also feed kibble. I am lucky enough to feed my dogs freely (it is always available) and they don't overeat and are very healthy.
If I feed too many bones, I will invariably be cleaning up some puke, so I keep it as a treat. But that is my dogs, if they were fed bones daily there would be no problems puke wise. :)

Have fun feeding your dog a raw bone. :D
Heather

[Jody Hayes]

I feed raw bones too. Sunday mornings they each get one and I get to sleep in:) I get them from the butcher. Just cow femurs like Heather gets or whatever is available that week. My dogs handle them well and have never gotten sick or overly protective of the bones. I can take them away w/ no worries of being bit and the boys trade w/ each other w/out any aggression.

[heathea]

The BEST thing I ever taught my dogs was to give things to me with no aggression whatsoever (although I don't know how much was teaching and how much was luck). My dog Teak has always been excessively submissive so I was never worried about him (in regards to food, anyway), however we got a puppy and realized that she was going to be HUGE so we started training with leave it and take it nice. She is now 100lbs and as my mother says, takes things like a cow. she uses her lips as opposed to teeth. She will also bring me her bone and put it in my lap if I ask for it becuase she knows she will either get something better or the bone back. I am so happy with my dogs.
It has been a lot of work, but worth it.
Heather

[Andre Mendizabal]

I also feed raw bones, I feed them as a treat and sometimes as a meal, the ones I use as a treat are mostly soup bones (cow), cow femurs or tails. Whatever the butcher has prepared for me (he gives them for free and cuts them in medium-small pieces). I usually too give them on Sundays when we return from their Sunday "park walk". The bones have a little meat and fat in them, I usually take out the extra fat and marrow and they will eat them completely, both beagle and mini-schnauzer. And as a personal note, since I've been feeding 1/2 raw-1/2 kibble diet and raw bones their breath has improved, Molly (m-sch) had a really nasty breath and now it smells so much better...
:rolleyes:

[Grace Erick]

Peggy, I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it yet, but cooked bones are bad because they can splinter and lodge in your dog's throat or intestines. If you do feed RMB, don't leave your dog alone with it. I don't feed my dog RMB, raw meaty bones, so I don't know a lot about it. I know there is a big debate amongst people who do and people who don't. I have heard stories of some dogs breaking their teeth on the bones.

Bye, Grace