Raw bones

[Ann Morscher]

I have been wanting to give Misty a raw bone for a few weeks now, but am so unsure of the process. I have read alot, but still seem to have some questions. I know she will just gobble them up as she was fed raw by the breeder. I did not know enough about raw feeding to make an informed decision at the time so she is fed kibble with us. Yet, I would love for her to have some marrow bones or other raw bones to chew on from time to time. Today when I was at our pet store, Pet People, I was talking with one of the employees. She mentioned they now sell raw bones at the store. I was able to get 1/2 lb raw bison marrow bone. She told me thaw the bone thoroughly and then give it to her for 10-15 minutes at first. I am so freaked out about the food poisoning issue. I'm not worried about Misty, but I am worried about myself and son getting sick from her.

Well, I gave her the bone outside in the yard and set the timer for 10 minutes. She was in heaven. I made sure I washed my hands well after touching the bone. After 10 minutes, I took the bone from her and put it in a ziplock bag and popped it back in the freezer ( the lady at the pet store told me to do this). Now, did I follow the right procedures? How often can I give her the bone to chew? Is this something I can give her every day or just a few times a week? I only want to give this to her for recreational chewing, to help clean her teeth and as an occasional extra yummy for her.

I wiped her face with a baby wipe when she came in, but do worry about her giving us kisses. She loves to kiss my son when he comes home from school, but I worry about the raw meat being on her still.

I would appreciate any help you can all give me. Also any good recommend books to read on the subject?

Ann

[Cathy Kennedy]

Hi there Anna

I feed my two black labs exclusively on RMB (raw meaty bones), they don't really eat anything else - vegetables occasionally, fruit - not really, kibble - never.

All dogs love bones, although something like a marrow bone or shin bone (ie. anything really big like cartoon dogs have) is really a 'recreational bone' - one that they will love chewing for hours with a few really important things to bear in mind - first never, ever *ever* buy a big bone like that split lengthways. It may look really nice with all that marrow available, but is v. dangerous, as it encourages them to try to actually eat the bone, rather than lick and chew. If you spot them trying to knaw pieces off the bone, take it away as they could get some of it stuck.

Second, try not to only give marrow bones, as marrow is very rich, and if they have too much it can give them a really poorly tummy.

Thirdly, try not to give them a bone with too much fat - again it can cause tummy problems.

Things like beef ribs are also good and my two love lamb, particularly the breast or shanks.

As for the food poisoning thing - I have never had any problems with that, and I have a 20 month old daughter who gets licked - lots! Dog saliva is extremely acidic and has a load of natural antibiotics (which is why they lick themselves lots when they get hurt).

Mostly my two have chicken and I am just careful like I would be with raw chicken cooking for us to eat - washing my hands etc.

I would be wary of thawing and refreezing any bone too often - that will definitely encourage bacteria to grow...

Try the bones as often as you feel comfortable with - your dog will just be thrilled to get them!

hth,

Cathy

[heathea]

I am not an expert, however I do give raw bones to my dogs along with feeding kibble. Here is what I do: If I have just gotten the bone from the store unfrozen, I give it to the dogs, either inside or outside, depending on what I feel like.
If they are frozen, I give it to the dog either inside or outside-whatever I feel like, and it thaws eventually.
I allow my dogs to eat all of the meat off the bones and then they chew the bones for a while (intermittently over days). I don't "take the bones away" but if you have never fed raw bones before, the pet store lady was probably telling you to go slow to avoid tummy upsets (good idea). If I become "grossed out" or stub my toe on them I tend to throw them away. Stepping on them or stubbing my toe hurts!

I do wash my hands following my "touching" of the bone. If you or your son are immune supressed in some way I would take more precautions, however if you are both healthy, I would not worry as much as you are. If the "feel" of the bone freaks you out, you could wear latex gloves and dispose of them after touching the bone.
I do not allow my dogs to kiss my face (although the cute buggers still sneak one in occasionally), however dogs mouths (same as humans) are awash in saliva constantly which would "cleanse" the dogs mouth of bone residue within minutes of taking the bone away. I have never "re-frozen" my dogs bones, in my opinion, that much temperature change (thaw, freeze, thaw, freeze) would degrade the integrity of the bone which could allow the bone to break off in splinters (which is not good).

After reading your post I really believe you are very worried about raw food in your home, whether for humans or your dog. If it concerns you that much, you might want to look into sterilized bones. They are available at pet stores and come either empty or filled with stuff. You can re-fill these bones with peanut butter, etc.

Dogs absolutely LOVE raw bones, but they also are able to pick up on your tension, etc. If giving your dog a raw bone freaks you out so much that you are afraid to let your son and dog play together you probably shouldn't feed raw bones (even as a treat) because the stress you are feeling will be picked up by your son and your dog.

I applaud your effort to learn more about it and good for you for trying. However, your dog wants your love and affection more than an occasional bone.

Take care,
Heather

[Andre Mendizabal]

Ok, here's what I do: I get the raw bones from the butcher, I usually get them by the pound, ribs, necks and backs (chicken), tails, etc. I don't feed them as in a meal, but I do give them as a special treat, so when I get them new I freeze them and thaw one by one, I take out most of the fat, leaving only a small amount on the bone and usually take the marrow out too, then I give it to the dog and supervise, my dogs are used to bones so they will end with one in about 30 mins., their 1/2 hr in heaven!!! ;) I don't like to refreeze the bones because of the bacteria outgrow... so if they don't finish their bone, I would rather throw it away and give a brand new one next time... to help me out with this, the butcher will cut the bones in smaller parts.

You can use any kind of disinfectant to wash your hands after handling raw bones, and about the kisses, I remembered I read somewhere (correct me someone if I'm wrong) that you can put a teaspoon of apple vinegar in the water of your dog, this will help with their breath and is a natural disinfectant. Although, I haven't catched anything from my dogs and they are both avid kissers!!!

I have a 7 yr old mini schnauzer and a 1 yr old beagle, I started giving bones when they hit their 9th month...

Good luck and don't be afraid, just keep searching!!! :cool:

[Jo Russell]

I feed both kibble and raw. I'd like to do raw entirely, but have a few reasons why I'll probably stick to arf 'n arf; chief among them is how much fun mine have with a kong of kibble, which I find much easier to deal with inside the house.

On the hygiene issue, I, too, take the normal precautions I would in handling meat for humans and have had no problems. I think what Heather said (rough paraphrase) about comfort zones and your relationship with your dog was brilliant. There's no point in anybody doing anything they're not really comfortable with, just because it might seem to be the "right" thing to do when it may have negative repercussions in other ways.

It is good to start in slowly with changes. Even if your dog was fed raw at another time, her digestive system will have adjusted to what you've been feeding her more recently. It can take a while when changing to, or even introducing a little raw for the dogs system to get up to speed.

Although what you've fed in the way of bones so far wont hurt her, it can be a good idea to start with smaller bones, like brisket, and young meat, like lamb, as they will be easier for your dog's stomach to cope with. I also wouldn't refreeze, which is another reason why smaller bones which can be eaten in one sitting might be better - though dogs do love and don't have problems with stinky old bones that have been lying around outside, even if we don't think they're a good idea. A dogs system will tolerate way more in the way of germs than our human system can and they have much stronger stomach acid than we do, which is how they are able to break down bone.

One thing I noticed when introducing my Pom (who has a bit of a sensitive tum) to raw meaty bones was he couldn't seem to deal with too much in the way of chicken... I figured that might be because his kibble is largely chicken, so that's something it might be useful to be aware of. But he's good with lamb, beef and a little venison.


GENERAL PUBLIC SERVICE CAUTION: Cooked bones are most likely to splinter, and should not be fed.

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[Jo Russell]

I apologise, sincerely, for mentioning the 'k' word in holistic health.

[Andre Mendizabal]

About all that raw diet thing, I just wanted to share and point out something... Right now I'm feeding 1/2 raw 1/2 kibble, but at the beginning I tried the 1/2 homecooked 1/2 kibble... both my dogs would get SOOOO GASSY... but, I mean it... really nasty gas!!!! by process of elimination I found out it was cooked beef, so I figured they were allergic (they eat chicken kibble), but when I gave some raw bones with meat on them I noticed they wouldn't get gassy and one day I tried giving half their meal of raw beef... no gas at all :o What I'm trying to say here (very confussingly) is that each dog is different and you have to adjust their diet to their needs and your availability.

[Frances Grady]

so you all are saying its safe to feed dogs uncooked straight from the package chicken raw?

[Ann Morscher]

Thanks so much for all of the helpful information. I am still on the fence about what I will do. I really feel that I would love to get to the point where I can allow her to have a recreational raw bone from time to time. I did give her the bison marrow bone on Monday and still have quite a bit of it. I allowed her to have it for 10 minutes. She had it in the yard and when the 10 minutes were up, I wiped her off and washed my hands really well too. I did refreeze the bone, but not sure I will give it to her again. I would like to try something smaller that she can consume in a shorter time period.

What would you recommend as a recreational bone that is small enough to be consumed in short amount of time. For now I only want something she can chew on for a short time since I do not want her to get sick eating too much raw too soon. I am also thinking of cutting away some of the fat and marrow to cut down on the amount.

I really appreciate all of the helpful information.

Ann

[Andre Mendizabal]

Frances, if your dog is used to eating raw and after consulting to your vet, it is safe to give raw meat (not pork), their digestive systems are way more prepared to handle it than ours....

Ann, the kind of bone I give as a recreational bone is beef. Beef are a little stronger than chicken so they will last longer: tails, ribs, and any kind of bone as long as it is cut in a small piece.

Good luck