Want to crate train older pup

[Monika Lisak]

Hello, I recently got a new pup who is 6mths old she is used to being outside and seems to be terrified of the crate, my other pup is crate trained and i would like to teach this that it is a good place as well so she can be inside in the winter's coldest mths and the summer's hottest days, how can i go about doing this properly and somewhat quickly before the real heat of summer comes.

She is a lab/husky mix if that helps with anything
When I trained my other one she was just 6weeks old so her crate is all she has ever known and loves it , but this one is not so convinced.

Any ideas

[aussiesmum]

Start by feeding your new pup in her crate.
Give her kongs (or whatever special treats you give her) in her crate.

Use her crate in play time or training time.

Get her used to her crate.

[Monika Lisak]

ya i have heard of that, but see she eats so quickly that the food is gone in literally 10 seconds I am not exaggerating apparently huskies have a food now response , she does this with everything, treats cookies bones. So i have put the food in the cage but after 10 seconds it's gone and the howling begins and will not stop, if i lived alone i would ignore it for longer than i have but my roommates get annoyed a little with the barking.

Any other suggestions

[aussiesmum]

don't close the door! Just put the food in there with the door open. this way she is going to go into the cage on her own. You can also make eating "harder' for her. Spread the food around (a bit in each corder) or in 2 kongs.

[Monika Lisak]

ok thanks i will try that tonight but after how long do you think she will be ok with being in there all day and not cry , i know it is a slow process that requires patience. Is it possible that she will never get used to it if she had a traumatizing experience , I think in her previous home she was left in there too long and alone and it had a negative effect on her?

[aussiesmum]

Never can say?!? But do you know if she had a bad experince or if she just isn't used to it? Or is there an alternative to the crate, but also a safe place for her (such as a laundry room or other smaller area)?

But I would just take your time as best you can. use the crate as much as you can in her daily routine. When we give aussie a kong it is almost always in her crate. if I give her one on her other bed, she still carries her kong into her crate because it is part of her routine. Just takes time.

[Monika Lisak]

ok last night i tried your suggestion and she did go in the crate willingly, however, she was chewing and chewing tis bone and the second she was done she ran out of the crate and was panting and freaking out, i had to let her out, give her water and pet her quietly and then she finally calmed down, it's like if she thinks she is enclosed it scares her, we will be starting some training soon so i am hoping we can resolve some of these issues.

Also have you ever seen a dog bringing up clear, looks like spit, it's not vommit, she sounds like she is choking a little and then this clear liquid comes out like water, i don't think anything is lodged in her throat because i checked and she was fine this morning , she seems to do this at night, but only for the past 2 days, any ideas on what it could be?

i know it persists through tonight i will bring her to the vet
but i was just wondering if anyone knew what it could be?

[Jesse Cruz]

could it be anxiety drool???

[Monika Lisak]

no it's not really drool, it's more of like spit up but it's clear no mucus or anything, could it be a side effect of the bordatella vaccine?

[aussiesmum]

Ok, first the drool. Drool comes in all forms of yucky slober. Could be anxiety (which is my guess), could have been the bone. Aussie sometimes gets almost foot long strands of drool when she is waiting to be feed. had another pooch with nasty foamy slober. Just keep an eye on her for a day or two, but when in doubt, ring your vet.

Now to the crate issue, you said "i had to let her out" outside or out of the cage?

I know it is scary for you, but the consoling you did probably was more out of consoling your "guilt" than helping her. I don't mean to say that in a bad way, but only that your dog will learn VERY quickly how to get your attention. If you continue to do that, she will earn what she needs to do because what you did was tell her "yep, freakin gout gets you attention" YIKES! I am not saying you are a bad mommy, just letting you in a bit of cause and effect ;)

ok, also, what does freaking out mean?

(sorry to be overly questioning, but more info always helps)

[Monika Lisak]

freaking out to me means that she is yelping and crying and starts to bark, now i consulted a trainer about this matter and they said to let her out before the anxiety starts, but it starts alomost immediately, once she realizes the door is closed.

I know it is a slow process, but is it possible- what if she never gets used to it?
i really do not want to leave her outside when it is hot or too cold, even though that is what her previous owner did but they were home during the day so they would let her in periodically where as i work all day so i want her to be safe and comfortable.

the treats that i give her are starting to be limited because i noticed that a lot of them are giving her diarrhea. I have the crate in my bedroom so it is not that scary but as soon as i leave the room, the crying starts.

The spitting up liquid has gone away , apparently it was a side effect of receiving the bordatella vaccine.

do you know any good books on crate training?

thanks for all your advice

[Jennifer Hughes]

Crate training can be a long and slow process (I've known friends with rescue dogs that have taken up to a year). I believe you cannot force it.

I adopted my dog at a year of age and she hated her crate initially. I fed her ALL her meals in the crate in the kitchen for a month or so. Her water was left in the back of the crate, so she had to go in to drink. I just left the door open, never went near her when she was eating - that freaked her out - and waited and waited. When I felt she was used to that, I moved the crate upstairs into the spare bedroom and put her blanket in it. Then I just left the door open, threw treats in, and never approached her when she went near it. If I saw her approach her crate, I said "yes! good girl" (her reward marker words). One night, she climbed in and slept there all night and now refuses to sleep anywhere else. I've since moved it into my bedroom and I leave the door open all the time. It's like her little den.

I would suggest that once she gets used to going in on her own for a period of several weeks, that you then, and only then, try to close the door. If you meet any resistance (whining, barking, freaking out) then back up and just leave the door open again for a week or so. Move slowly and be patient. You want that crate to be her haven, not a stressful place. You want her to choose it because goog things happen when she is in there - treats, rest, refuge.

Good luck, it ain't easy!

[Monika Lisak]

I agree it should be a good place, but what do you do if you are pressed for time, she is being much too destructive to my backyard and possibly ingesting things she shouldn't be, she cannot be left loose in the house because she is stillnot completely potty trained, the people who had her before just left her outside but did not care if she dug up their yard, and never really potty trained her , she does the door circling thing when she needs to pee but she goes very often, and now with the summer heat coming up i just don't like the idea of her being outside, my vet suggested to go cold turkey and just put her in the crate while i'm home and while i run errands but to ignore the freaking out, after about a week she should get used to it and deal with it??

What do you think, I crate trained my other dog but from the time she was 6 weeks, i forced her to be in there, but did not abuse the crate, only when i am at work is she in there, or when i have to go out! now she loves it it's her safe place, she goes there when she's tired, or scared of something or just wants to get away and chew a bone? can it be a positive experience for the new one even though she is 6mths I just cannot risk the bad things that come with leaving her out in the yard during the day!!

what do you think

[Jennifer Hughes]

Monika-

You're in a tough spot. I am not convinced that just putting your dog in the crate and ignoring her will work. I guess it might- that's essentially how you teach a baby to sleep through the night. But dogs learn by operant and classical conditioning, not by cognitive reasoning. I think she will end up stressed and hating her crate.

Is there a place in your house you can block off for her when you leave? Maybe the kitchen or a hallway, or a bedroom? Use baby gates, moved furniture, whatever. Put her crate with her food in it in this space and leave the door open. That way she has a quiet place to go but is also isolated in the house in a place where if she has a potty accident, it won't ruin your carpets, etc. It sounds like housebreaking is the other big issue to work on.

Could this actually be separation anxiety instead of just fear of the crate? You mentioned sometimes she goes in willingly, but then when you leave the room, she starts whining and barking. I don't know but maybe there is a component of SA. In that case, you will need to approach from that point of view - check out the SA folder.

[Chris Smith]

I'll put in my two cents here even though I know many people on this board use crates. I think they can be great for some dogs but I don't think that all dogs learn to love them as their den or special place. I got my dog at 4 months and knew nothing about crates (first dog). When he was about 5 months or so, I bought a crate after reading all the positives of having one.

I followed the articles and suggestions and tried and tried to get Nalu to like his crate. He hated it and would not use it. It was to the point where he would drag the blanket out of the crate that had the food on it to avoid going inside the crate to get it. He would not take one step into the crate. And if tried to put him in, he would bear down on all fours and refuse. Plus he looked so sad and miserable.

He is from a shelter and I don't know his background. But with this reaction, my guess is that he had bad experiences with crates. I did not want to cause Nalu to fear me or have aggression towards me so I gave up on the crate.

He will sometimes use it now (he is 8 months old now) for one thing - driving in the car. I completely removed the door from the crate since it seemed like he had real fear issues with the door and it being closed. I put the crate in the back part of my SUV so it is wide open to him and no one is back there to close him in. After several minutes of driving, he will sometimes(not always) go into the crate. That's all we use it for now.

[Jennifer Hughes]

Fair enough. I agree, some dogs have their reasons (don't you wish they could tell you). I guess you don't know until you try.