Intermittent Incontinence in 5 year old Female Aussie

[Michelle Rose-Fuller]

Hello Everyone!

I was a subscriber to doggiedoor.com, and I'm glad we still have someplace to turn to. My 5 year old female aussie developed a bladder infection in January which was successfully treated with antibotics. Three weeks later it returned, and we are dealing with intermittent incontinence now. She's been on a three week course of antibiotics this time. The vet checked and cultured her urine a week ago, and now it's fine. We had an x-ray taken last week as well, and there were no stones or cancer evident. I've heard that diabetic dogs and spayed dogs can suffer from this condition. She's not exibiting signs associated with diabetes, and her thyroid is fine. Some days she fine, and others she'll leak/dribble while walking around, and release her bladder when she sleeps. Needless to say, this is distressing for everyone.

Has anyone had a similar experience, and if so, is there a homeopathic remedy or diet for bladder control?

[Summer Magic]

I'm no expert on homopathic remedies but have been told to give her finely chopped parsley and unsweetened cranberry juice to ease the discomfort.

[Michelle Rose-Fuller]

Thanks for the suggestion:-) She's on cranberry capsules right now. Parsley makes sense, as it's an antiseptic.

[Sam Aiden]

Hi, it is usually a condition in spayed dogs which follows very quickly after the operation but the symptoms are those of too much muscle relaxation which is a difficult one to sort out as we can't teach our dogs to do pelvic floor exercises. If you go to the CCG website you will find some useful articles on treating this type of problem. There are a lot of things that can cause this but a few remedies you should read about are Cantharis, Causticum and perhaps sepia. See which symptoms suit your dog the best and start there. I would personally like to see the dog on an Infection Remedy which you can read about on the CCG website, and perhaps one of the bladder/UTI remedies. Too many antibiotics are not good and they don't cure the problem as such. I will try and find some of the posts I kept copies of which explain in more detail the treatments for this problem and post it. I just have a lot of e.mails to go through and check out!
Sometimes it is a bacterial infection which is not often touched by anti biotics but if your vet is sure there is nothing there you need to go back to what happened prior to this starting and see if we can see a picture forming so we can get to the cause rather than just cure the immediate symptoms.



Has anyone had a similar experience, and if so, is there a homeopathic remedy or diet for bladder control?

[Michelle Rose-Fuller]

Hi Sam-

Thanks for your feedback. Can you give me the official web address for the CCG website?

I don't want to have to keep her on antibiotics forever, as I realize it is a vicious circle. Destroy all bacteria, even good ones, and you have an even greater problem on your hands. The urine culture was negative-no bacteria present.

Perhaps I have a more complex problem, not just an infection? I've read that this can happen to spayed middle age canines due to estrogen deficiency. Should I attempt to address this situation myself by trying several different remedies, i.e. immune support, a bladder tonic and hormonal support?

Warm Regards,

Michelle

[Sam Aiden]

Sorry about that. It is www.caninecaregroup. net there are a few articles and also remedies to read about. If it gets confusing, let me know. It would be good to find out if possible what your vet feels caused the infections. Using homeopathic treatments you do not destroy bacteria as such so there is no damage. The repair rate is higher believe me.

Michelle, if you write to me at caninecaregroup@leah s.freeserve.co.uk I'll send you some questions. Answer them and I'll suggest a course of treatment for the dog. I'd rather do this than guess if that is okay with you.

From what you write it will give me a better understanding of the problem so I can give you more accurate advice, or try to! and if any other forum members have ideas I hope they shout up also, the more information the better.

Read up on D-Mannose which is, I am told, often very helpful in these situations. I will try and find all the old posts but it will take me a while to go through them. I saved a lot but not all sadly.

[Sam Aiden]

Found this on UTI problems which was up on doggiedoor and probably have more but hope this helps. Don't forget to feed Cranberry juice also!

D-Mannose - this is supposed to help with this type of problem. Also have you had a feacal sample done just to rule out out any bowel/intestinal bugs that could be irritating the bladder, like e-coli for instance. The D-Mannose you need to read up for yourself but I've talked to a friend of mine who has had reasonable success with the product, along with diet changes if needed, and this wa suggested to me for your babe. Use www.google.com and it's easy enough to buy in a Health Store, I just think you need to read this.
D-mannose is a naturally occurring simple sugar, closely related (in chemical terms, a "stereoisomer") to glucose. Small amounts of D-mannose are metabolized by our bodies; more than small amounts are excreted promptly into the urine. But how can even large quantities of a simple natural sugar do anything at all to cure over 90% of all bladder and urinary tract infections?

The answer is found in the interaction between D-mannose and the bacterium found in over 90% of all bladder infections, Escherichia coli ("E. coli"). [No, that's not the infamous E. coli mutant associated with unsanitary food processing that's hospitalized and killed people. It's the normal E. coli found as part of the "normal microflora" in every intestinal tract.] But even normal E. coli don't belong in the bladder and urinary tract; in these areas it multiplies and becomes an undesirable infection.

But why doesn't the normal downflow of urine from the kidneys through the ureters into the bladder and thence beyond simply carry the E. coli right along with it? What allows the E. coli to "stick" to the inner walls of the bladder and even work their way upward (like "Spiderman") in some cases reaching as far as the kidneys?

The "cell walls" of each E. coli are covered with tiny fingerlike projections. The very tips of these projections are an amino acid-sugar complex, a "glycoprotein" also called a "lectin". E. coli "lectins" have the unfortunate (for us) capability of "sticking" the bacteria to the inside walls of our bladders and urinary tracts, so they can't be rinsed out by urination.

Unfortunately for the E. coli, D-mannose "sticks" to E. coli lectins even better than E. coli lectins "stick" to human cells. When we take a large quantity of D-mannose, almost all of it spills into the urine through our kidneys, literally "coating" any E.coli present so they can no longer "stick" to the inside walls of the bladder and urinary tract. The E. coli are literally rinsed away with normal urination!

Why is "rinsing away" E. coli with D-mannose superior to killing them with antibiotics and anti-microbials? When an antibiotic is taken, it kills unwanted micro-organisms, but it also kills many "friendly" micro-organisms. Every woman is familiar with "yeast infections" that follow antibiotic use, as the "friendly bacteria" are killed off along with the "bad bacteria", leaving the antibiotic-insensitive yeast to grow "out of control". Long-term or often-repeated antibiotic use can lead to major disruptions in normal body microflora, and sometimes to major disruptions in health, especially immune system function. [It's suspected that the "killer" E. coli of recent years are "mutants" caused by persistent antibiotic feeding to animals.]

By contrast, D-mannose doesn't kill bacteria, "friendly" or "unfriendly". D-mannose simply helps to relocate misplaced E.coli from inside of our urinary tracts to outside. (Since D-mannose is absorbed in the upper gastrointestinal tract, it doesn't relocate the "friendly" E. coli normally present in the colon.) D-mannose treatment of E. coli bladder and urinary tract infections is ecologically sound treatment. (The very small amounts of D-mannose metabolized by our bodies and not excreted into the urine are harmless.) As an extra bonus, D-mannose tastes good!


This is another reason I detox so regularly so my dog can enjoy a few 'perks' without the dangers. I've seen the damage too many carrots can cause to an animal and I've seen the damage done if the liver is damaged and you're not aware of it, so I tend to be a bit cautious that's all. In moderation I suppose they're okay. Personally I can think of other vegetables that would be more nutritious to the dog but that's a personal opinion. The facts on the vitamin are that, facts.
Propalin is an allopathic med that Vets use for dogs with spay incontinence and although people want to use the product, we've been approached by several to have this done homeopathically, this way there are no chemicals involved and no damage done to the dog, so you get all the benefits and none of the chemicals. It seems to work for most dogs but as in all things, there are those it will not help and I find people tend to use the syrup rather than pills so maybe that's something to think about. I really don't know that much about it in the way it works pill-syrup but you can ask your vet. It is usually for spay incontinence.
I can tell you to read up on Cantharis, Causticum and Sepia....or use a Combination Remedy like the bedwetting remedy if it's night time incontinence or obviously I always ask people to get the dog checked for infection or bacteria type problems and this is where we find the D-Mannose very helpful. again, we are making this homeopathically, and we hope it will bring relief to many dogs who suffer from this problem.
You can get the detox from the website below but let me tell you now, the chances are, the urination will increase a little as the detox usually rids the toxins via the weakest point in the body, in this case, it's the bladder, in some animals it's ears, runny eyes etc. but it will stop in about 48 hours. This is the one of the most infuriating problems to deal with and very difficult to be successful with on the first go, but if the dog has no infection, then I'd consider the D-Mannose and a Detox and see how things go. I am sure your vet will be happy to chat with you if you take in some documents and let them read them. If they've tried and failed, then really, for the sake of the dog, they should give you support in other areas. I do wish there was an easy answer and cure for Incontinence but there isn't. As always, diet and general health is vital and if you're happy with the diet and there is nothing in there which could be causing the problem, it's just going to be a 'wait and see' thing with this little dog. Do let us know how you get on.
Can I just add, there are many detoxes out there for sale, not just on the CCG site, but I use ours, so does my dog and it's the only one I know and trust to work which is why I suggest it. If you want to get a Detox elsewhere, believe me, you can find many. I can only vouch for the remedies and products I use or have tried, some are not always our own, like the D-Mannose, so it's really your choice. Avoid herbals if you can though unless you know the source of the herbs to be of the highest quality. They can, if wrongly used, be dangerous. OR ask Laura if she's around

[Sam Aiden]

Urinary incontinence refers to the inability of the bladder to hold and store urine. While the physiology of urination is complex, it can be viewed as the interplay between two basic neuromuscular components. One involves the muscular contraction and relaxation of the bladder wall; the other controls the muscular sphincters in the urethra, the tube that conducts urine away from the bladder. For normal storage of urine, the bladder wall must relax to allow filling. At the same time, the urethral sphincter must close tightly to prevent urine from leaking out. When it's time for urine to be voided, the urethral sphincter must relax and the bladder wall must contract to force urine through the urethra.

Urinary incontinence occurs when the urethral sphincter loses its ability to tighten. Consequently, whenever pressure in the bladder exceeds pressure in the flaccid urethra, urine spills out. The pressure may be exerted by urine accumulation or just the normal pull of gravity.

Urinary incontinence can also occur in association with anatomical malformati ons of the lower urinary tract. In either case, the affected animal has no voluntary control over urination.

It is not unusual to confuse other conditions with urinary incontinence, caused by such problems as infection, stones or tumors. Perhaps the most common is inflammation of the lower urinary tract, which usually causes a condition known as urge incontinence. In this situation, the dog perceives a burning sensation in the urethra and feels the constant urge to urinate. Animals posture to urinate normally, but do so with increased frequency and often show signs of straining. They are not, however, truly incontinent. They are just urinating more often than normal. Identification and treatment of the underlying lower urinary tract disorder alleviates the problem.

In addition, several canine diseases cause increased urine production and consequently, the need to urinate more frequently than normal. These diseases include hyperadrenocorticism , diabetes mellitus, kidney failure, hypercalcemia and liver disease. Affected animals maintain normal storage and urination ability, but their urine production increases to the point where they can't hold it as long as usual. Therefore, accidents may occur in the house. Polyuria, or frequent urination, is a common symptom of these diseases. Animals with polyuria also drink excessive amounts of fluid to compensate for their urinary water loss.

juhen incontinence results from loss of urethral sphincter tone, the disorder is known as sphincter incompetence. The causes of sphincter incompetence are unclear. The disorder can occur in male and female dogs of any age or breed. The most striking feature of urethral sphincter incompetence, however, is that the overwhelming majority of cases are spayed bitches.

The onset of incontinence can take place immediately after surgery or many years later. In most cases, incontinence is observed about three years after spaying. Obviously, the underlying mechanism of incontinence in these dogs must be related to ovariohysterectomy. Some veterinary urologists believe the culprit is low post-surgical estrogen concentrations. This is supported by the finding that many affected bitches respond to estrogen therapy. However, the theory doesn't explain why some bitches become incontinent after spaying and others don't. It also doesn't explain why pregnant bitches (with high progesterone and low estrogen levels) don't become incontinent. Other possible causes could be related to damage of the urethra associated with uterine stump inflammation after surgery. Anatomical factors such as urethral length and bladder position could also be impl icated.

Am not trying to panic you but I do think it's worth discussing this again with your vet, drugs are not the answer really. I could send you a ton of information, but am holding back until I hear from you.

There are herbs that can help, Causticum I think from memory is the remedy if the muscles are slack, give it once a day say 3-4 times a week. I'd also consider a bacterial remedy having given this some thought. Look forward to hearing from you.

[Michelle Rose-Fuller]

Hi Sam-

Received D-Manrose in the mail today, and gave Ruby her first dose. I also ordered a homeopathic remedy containing Cantharis, Causticum, and some other ingredients. Let's keep our fingers crossed that this helps.

I'm taking her back to the vet this Saturday to have her urine checked one more time, and to perhaps have additional bloodwork done. It seems like I'm the one who has to make suggestions about the underlying problem, rather than my vet. I may seek a second opinion.

Anyway, I'll keep everyone updated in case someone else has this problem. Thanks again for your advice :)

[Sam Aiden]

I am familiar with owners having to suggest courses of actions to their vets, it is getting more and more like that. I think we are just researching more and are better equipped to go in and ask or tell them what we want doing. I recently had my dog blood tested and got a copy of all her medical records. After this entry there was a line of question marks and exclamation marks which to me meant the vet thought I was asking for something he felt was not required but guess what? it was. My dog had a thyroid problem which I am now treating, but she just did not fit the profile of a hypothyroid dog, however, other aspects of her behaviour did so I figured it was worth a try and hopefully she will start to improve but it is maddening that you now have to second guess treatments.
I hope the holistic treatment helps but let us know if not. I am sure we can advise other remedies but will keep fingers crossed for you.

[Michelle Rose-Fuller]

Yes, as it is with our own health, that extends to the companions we take care of-----no one will go out of their way to treat a health problem the way you would; you need to be your own advocate :wink: