My sweet rescue is getting defensive

[Loren Kristunas]

Hi. I wrote about my rescue Sage on the Doggie Door. She is a 1 1/2 year lab/border collie mix. We rescued her from the shelter 3 months ago. The history we know of her from information we received and are own guesses are she was adopted fro the pound at 8 weeks by one family with a young child, I think had another same age lab puppy as a friend and not much other socialization with dogs, had alot of ground to roam on but wasn't taken out much. I suspect from the way she cringes in certain situations she may have been hit or kicked, I don't think she was brutalized but more was roughly disciplined by ignorant people, perhaps when she jumped up on people or knocked over the toddler. When we first got her she was friendly but anxious, eager to please, always quite friendly with our older Golden Retriever except for the very first day when she gave a quick snap over a toy. Very friendly with a friends dog she sees every day after an initial few days of occasional low growls. For the first month she was friendly but shy and fearful with new dogs, hackles raised, tail between legs, head down. We tried to build confidence, started her on NILIF, obedience training. She seemed to do very well and was relaxing, for a few weeks, but then began to do this stalking, charging, stopping, staring, and then giving one snap right in the dogs face. Many people said this may be herding type behaviors and it may have been, but I think there is more going on here. We put her back on leash and we tried distracting her, giving some commands when another dog approaches, etc, but something, maybe our tension seemed to make the behaviors worse. Holding her back on leash she has taken to lunging on leash, growling and snapping at other dogs. Not all other dogs, maybe about 30%, with the others she is fine. We pull her back and put her in a sit stay, if the other person stops and talks to us for a few minutes she seems to relax and even has some friendly interactions with the same dog. With dogs she is accustomed to we don't get the aggression, but she is sometimes quite rough and somewhat bullying in her play. When another dog disciplines her she backs right down, but if they aggess towards her she aggresses back. Please, any suggestions are appreciated, we are racking our brains trying to figure her our and give her the help she needs. She is very sweet, never aggressive with people, although often shy with strangers.

[Krista Winegardener]

From what you've said about Sage's past and current behavior,I have a hunch that she is more sensitive and alert than the average dog to her surroundings.It seems like,early in her life,she wasn't sensitively socialized--her needs to feel safe,protected and to have a good,calm leader weren't met.Could it be that she was just left to sort out and figure out other dogs,people,the wide world,all on her own,with maybe the occasional punishment when she did something 'wrong'? Punishment from people,I mean.Maybe she now thinks in a defensive way,since nobody was there during an earlier,important formative stage to actually guide her carefully and benevolently through her earliest interactions.It sounds like she's stuck in a reactive mode that is not of her making but has become the only solution she has found to cope with external stimuli,which may appear more potentially threatening to her than they would to a dog that had had a leader to turn to for guidance and protection.

Rescued dogs can take a while to show us any issues they have.Sage must be somewhat settled in with you now,so it does seem to me like she is now falling back on her own coping mechanisms,not because of anything you've done,but because these have become a habit for her.That is,she sees you as home,and she is doing what she has always had to do 'at home' or in any situation that is repetitive and similiar,as opposed to brief encounters where it might have felt safer for her to be shy and retiring.In a more permanent situation,you need to have a bolder coping strategy.I hope that makes sense.

I'm not a behaviorist or trainer.Maybe some one else knows specific things you can do to re-socialize Sage while training her and teaching her to see you as that trustworthy,protecti ve leader she never had.It sounds to me like Sage isn't ready to meet or play with new dogs in public,out in the world,until she has thoroughly understood that YOU are there,with her,in charge,protecting her.She needs to know that you will not allow her to be overwhelmed by any situation.She needs to know that you will know when she feels frightened or overstimulated and that you are always there to guide her away from such things.

I don't want to give you bad advice.I really hope some one else can chime in with what you can do to achieve this bond of trust with Sage.I do think she needs more than just NILIF and distractions.One thing I would venture to suggest is when you do meet new people/dogs and she is in a sit/stay,if you aren't doing this already,ask her to look at you (with maybe a 'look at me' command you can practice at home first) and when she does,tell her what a good girl she is.Do this a few times both before and during any encounters to focus her attention on you and to remind her that your attention is focused on HER.Always praise her warmly but calmly for looking at you.

I had read a really great article about 'aggressive' dogs that had become so due to the owner's not letting the dog know they were truly safe.I know that's not you! but could very likely be the kind of owner Sage had in the past.I will try to find that article for you and post it in here,it was amusing and insightful and might interest you.It had a bit of case history about an accidentally aggressive dog and how he was trained out of it.

[Krista Winegardener]

Hmmm ok,I found that article.It's mostly about what constitutes rudeness in a dog and how dogs perceive rudeness in other dogs..I just have a feeling that Sage has a very low threshold for dogs invading her space,maybe because she was once at the mercy of an overbearing dog in the past,before you had her.I share this article because it MIGHT represent Sage's point of view--whether this point of view is reasonable or not isn't important if that's the way she feels! And please,please don't think I'm implying that you're the kind of owner that's mentioned in this article.I know you're not!

http://www.flyingdogpress.c om/sayhi.html

[Melissa Brunoehler]

COLOR=Indigo]Comic Sans MS]Hi Loren~

Have you thought about hiring someone to work with you & Sage? It would probably be a good idea. Just make sure the person uses +R & does not use shock, choke, prong collars or other aversives. Dog language is very complex & having a professional to view Sage will be helpful.
Here are links to help in finding a trainer &/or behaviorist[/COLOR


http://www.iadbc.net
http://www.acabn.com/caninedirectory.html
http://animalbehaviorcounse lors.org/index.shtml
http://www.apdt.com


Hi. I wrote about my rescue Sage on the Doggie Door. She is a 1 1/2 year lab/border collie mix. We rescued her from the shelter 3 months ago. The history we know of her from information we received and are own guesses are she was adopted fro the pound at 8 weeks by one family with a young child, I think had another same age lab puppy as a friend and not much other socialization with dogs, had alot of ground to roam on but wasn't taken out much. I suspect from the way she cringes in certain situations she may have been hit or kicked, I don't think she was brutalized but more was roughly disciplined by ignorant people, perhaps when she jumped up on people or knocked over the toddler. When we first got her she was friendly but anxious, eager to please, always quite friendly with our older Golden Retriever except for the very first day when she gave a quick snap over a toy. Very friendly with a friends dog she sees every day after an initial few days of occasional low growls. For the first month she was friendly but shy and fearful with new dogs, hackles raised, tail between legs, head down. We tried to build confidence, started her on NILIF, obedience training. She seemed to do very well and was relaxing, for a few weeks, but then began to do this stalking, charging, stopping, staring, and then giving one snap right in the dogs face. Many people said this may be herding type behaviors and it may have been, but I think there is more going on here. We put her back on leash and we tried distracting her, giving some commands when another dog approaches, etc, but something, maybe our tension seemed to make the behaviors worse. Holding her back on leash she has taken to lunging on leash, growling and snapping at other dogs. Not all other dogs, maybe about 30%, with the others she is fine. We pull her back and put her in a sit stay, if the other person stops and talks to us for a few minutes she seems to relax and even has some friendly interactions with the same dog. With dogs she is accustomed to we don't get the aggression, but she is sometimes quite rough and somewhat bullying in her play. When another dog disciplines her she backs right down, but if they aggess towards her she aggresses back. Please, any suggestions are appreciated, we are racking our brains trying to figure her our and give her the help she needs. She is very sweet, never aggressive with people, although often shy with strangers.

[Ed Weinstein]

Hmmm ok,I found that article.It's mostly about what constitutes rudeness in a dog and how dogs perceive rudeness in other dogs..I just have a feeling that Sage has a very low threshold for dogs invading her space,maybe because she was once at the mercy of an overbearing dog in the past,before you had her.I share this article because it MIGHT represent Sage's point of view--whether this point of view is reasonable or not isn't important if that's the way she feels! And please,please don't think I'm implying that you're the kind of owner that's mentioned in this article.I know you're not!

http://www.flyingdogpress.c om/sayhi.html

Thank you SO MUCH for posting this article... I had a "problem" somewhat like this and the details in this really hit home. It definitely made me feel a lot better about my own dog's reactions that I'd found troubling.

It's funny how much we want our own dogs to be the "best" dog. If Max is hassling another dog, and he gets a growl or a lunge for his trouble, I'll tell him "Hey man, serves you right- you don't roll up on another dog like that!" And yet if he's the one being hassled and reacts, I'll try to stop and correct him, because I just hold him to a higher standard than that. Perhaps I need to abandon my snobbery and just let the dog be a dog! :D

[Krista Winegardener]

Ed,I know what you mean! That article gave me an 'Ah-ha' moment amd really helped me to better understand why my dog refuses to tolerate certain kinds of behaviours from some dogs.It made alot of sense to me!

[Sheryl]

Great article and thanks for sharing! I was feeling a little defensive when someone wrote that maybe I was expecting too much from my big guy and that he was just being a dog and showing doggie behaviour. This article was a real eye-opener.

[magoo]

Loren -
Hi there - thanks for adopting! I grew up on a sheep farm and I can say for sure that the stalking and other "herding" behaviors are right intact with the breed! As far as aggressiveness... I wouldn't be too concerned - according to you, it sounds like dog behavior to me
"When another dog disciplines her she backs right down, but if they aggess towards her she aggresses back." Wouldn't you?
I adopted a pit-mix about 6 months ago - and like all rescue dogs we've had our share of ups and downs... the truth is - in a human-human relationship - it takes time to trust and know each other - same is true in a canine-canine or canine-human bond. I think that you're doing all you can (Kudos to You) and that it will just take time - they're never PERFECT! (neither are we)
As far as walking anxiety...
My guy spent close to a year in a cage - so, once he realized he was home, he was (still is to a degree) VERY PROTECTIVE of me, with dog and man...
This is what I do.
When he starts to "stalk" - be it a person, a dog or a squirrel - I just say to him - "Look at me" (an invaluable command - taught by saying... "look at me" followed by a treat-after he actually LOOKS at me - this is taught at home, not during our walks - I only have 2 hands) and then a "Keep Walking" which I follow by stepping up my step, all the while saying "Look at me"...
The socialization will take time... when you think your border is relaxed - ASK the other dog owner if it's OK to MEET - then everyone is prepared... Start a few feet away and both of you relax your leashes and let them smell everything on each other - be careful not to pull the leash when they smell private parts (humans don't like it - but for dogs its like a hand-shake, gross, I know) let them do all their sniffing, and then walk definitely away if hackles appear, and when they're done sniffing... they may want to play - which will be exhibited as a "play-bow" almost like they're actually bowing with tails wagging - not a good idea on lead - too dangerous for the owners - you'll get caught up in the lead!
Sorry - long reply...
Truth is - you sound like you're doing all the right things - there's no magic involved in having (and less in rescuing) a well behaved dog. Like children, or spouses :), it takes daily training and patience to get them to do as you see fit! Give it a few months - you'll all be getting along famously!
Much luck!
Julie and Magoo.