Recommended books?

[Alberta Hanko]

I have a library devoted to this dog :lol: . Right now I am reading "Click to Calm" by Emma Parsons, and I love the way it is set up with "training recipes", step by step easy to follow advice. When I first discovered Linus' aggression issues I did do a lot of reading about dogs like him, such as "Jelly Bean versus Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde" which at least made me realize that there were not only other dogs out there like him (because I surely felt a little isolated--seemed everyone else had cuddly dogs) but even worse :wink: . Now I am into training books, both about positive training methods, and ones particularly for aggressive dogs. So what dog books are everyone else out there reading?

Alberta & Linus

[Luciann]

none yet but i would be interested any of the books on aggression. Since i have a male chi that has started becoming aggressive and I am going to get him neutrered and i really don't want to. So if you could send me some titles for books on aggression i would appreciate it

[Mario Niepel]

Probably my two favorite books are 'Culture Clash' by Jean Donaldson and 'Don't shoot the dog...' by Karen Pryor. Also quite an interesting read is 'The Other End of the Leash' by Patricia McConnell.

[Alberta Hanko]

Hi Luciann - A couple of other books dealing with aggression and training ideas are "Scaredy Dog-Understanding & Rehabilitating Your Aggressive Dog" by Ali Brown--it's a great book, and not overly expensive, and available at Dogwise. Brenda Aloff's "Aggression in Dogs--" although pricey is excellent. Pam Dennison's "Bringing Light to Shadow" a very good book. I also use for training, both of Pat Miller's books. And any of the articles by Renee Premaza, who had a human aggressive dog, Jack, and has articles on how she helped him. Now things are looking up, first we are lucky to have Colleen set up this site, and I see that both Joyce Keaton and Renee Premaza are joined here--you should be able to get a lot of help under the defensive dogs forum here from these two very knowledgeable ladies--I can't even begin to tell you how many times they have answered my questions and helped me to get past a roadblock with my Linus.

Good luck.

Alberta & Linus

[Jo Russell]

Are general dog book rec's okay here too? Because I'd like to mention that I really enjoyed these two which have nothing to do with training or how to deal with specific behavioural issues:

The Hidden Life Of Dogs by Elizabeth Marshall Thomas

Dogs Never Lie About Love : Reflections on the Emotional World of Dogs by Jeffrey Masson

I think they're both a little controversial in that neither of them are scholarly works and are what critics have called anthromorphic, though both authors state that they're aware they could be perceived that way and neither profess to be having the final word on how dogs are... They're observational, anecdotal, speculative and I found them both really interesting reading.

I'd also like to mention Turid Rugass, seeing as it was thanks to her "Calming Signals" being talked about and recommended at doggiedoor (where I had lurked for a couple of months before the crash)that I learned some things about the dog we adopted last May.

Turid has a website: http://www.canis.no/rugaas/ and wrote a book called On Talking Terms With Dogs which, although I haven't read it, I believe may talk about the calming signals, which there is a video/dvd about.

[Alberta Hanko]

Hi Jo - Any books recommended are great! Now you have given me two more to get. My husband laughs because there are always dog books on my Christmas list :) .


I love Turid Rugass' book, I have both that and the video. It definitely helped me understand more about my Linus. You will love it.

Another great book which should be mentioned and read is Suzanne Clothier's "Bones Would Rain from the Sky". It's wonderful and I reread it often.

Thanks for the recommendations.

Alberta & Linus

[Rowena Fry]

Hello!
I just started reading 'The Dog Listener With A New Comprehensive 30-day Training Guide' (a two books in one thing) by Jan Fennell. I literally just started the other day but am really enjoying it.

I've actually never seen her book recommended on dog websites before but amazon recommended it to me when I bought 'The Man Who Listens To Horses' by Monty Roberts (also very good).

So far it's been really good because she's explaining the instinctual pack behaviour behind things like why you should ignore your dogs attempts to jump up on you when you arrive home. I actually saw this advice on doggiedoor but didn't know why you should do this until I began this book.

[Jill Ramsey]

I also recommend"Bones Would Rain from the Sky" by Suzanne Clothier. Also the Turid Rugass information.

[Renee]

I have a few recomendations:

For aggression:
Aggression in Dogs by Brenda Aloff
Fiesty Fido by Patricia McConnell, Ph.D. and Karen London, Ph.D.

For understanding behavior and training:
The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell, Ph.D.
Don't Shoot The Dog! by Karen Pryor
The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson

Understanding the consequences of punishment:
Coercion and its fallout by Murry Sidman

[Luciann]

Everyone thank you i will start looking for some of these books. Maybe Collen can start and area for recommended readings. I appreciate everyone helping me with this.

Honestly last week i thought i was going to have to get rid of my little girl since she would be easiest to place but this week i have hope. part of that is getting Frodo fixed on the 1st and he is behaving better.

I wish at times i was a Dr Doolittle.

[Summer Magic]

I just ordered Scardey Dog by Stephen Lemberg. For aggressive dogs. It came highly recommended by another forum. I'll let you know what I think of it.

[Luciann]

thanks i would appreciate it. I am not so worried about having to get rid of one of my fur babies right now but last week was a different story. I love them both too much to get rid of them but i also will do what i have to, to give them both the quality of life they deserve.

[Grace Erick]

My Chihuahua Book for Dummies says to fix the dog to help with aggression problems, but chis have attitudes sometimes having nothing to do with whether they are fixed or not. It depend if they were socilized while very young with people and other dogs.

My female was not socialized when I got her at 5 months old and it was kind of past the time for socializing really helping her, but I tried anyway. People can hold her if I hand her over butt first, but you can't reach for her.

If someone kneels down and calls her, she runs up to them to scare them. It's kind of funny, she does it while she wags her tail, but I would rather she be friendlier. People still think she is cute, but she is a little monster. She won't attack anyone and isn't aggressive, she just does not want to be approached.

[Hee Yung Lee]

I can't wait to check out some of the books mentioned here! I was curious if anyone has ever read Ray Coppinger's book? I am not completely familiar with it or him, but I have heard just bits about it and it seems very interesting.

[Jo Russell]

I haven't read the Copinger book either, but was also interested in what they have to say. This website http://www.workingdogweb.co m/RSH-2004-2.htm has some info/links about their theories.

About Jan Fennel, the dog listener (or is it whisperer?)... I've read her books and initially institued her way of doing things with our first adopted dog. After a while I dropped some of them, like the token human eating first thing... it just didn't seem necessary in our situation with that particular dog who really didn't have any major issues and hasn't relapsed into a neurotic heap because we're not really strict all the time, or even much of the time. :wink:

I suppose it's a bit like doing NILIF, then relaxing into Almost-Nothing-in-Life-is-Free, but stepping it up again if it seems appropriate? In prepartion for the introduction of a 2nd dog, we did tighten up a bit again a couple of weeks before she came home, though we never did go back to the token eating, for instance.

At the risk of getting philosophical in a chatty place, I suppose it depends where you're starting from with any particular animal. Neither of our adoptive dogs had any real issues and both had a few basic commands, so just taking our time introducing new commands backed up by several mini training sessions a day made it fun and fairly stress free for all.

I have read one anecdotal account of someone doing the Jan Fennel way wholeheartedly for several months with their dogs, but dropping a lot of it after that time because the dogs ended up seeming kind of depressed and depressing, ie. they never seemed happy to see their humans because of the ignoring that is an integral part of the method, and to lots of us who enjoy the companionship of animals, the enthusiastic "love" our animals give us spontaneously is really important.

I hope it goes without saying that I'm not knocking any of the different approaches that have been mentioned here. I have read a ton of books too and learned lots of different useful things from many authors... one thing I have noticed is that there is a lot of overlap in the various non-punishing methods, which is all good from my pov.

Sorry to ramble on.

Must say to Alberta that "Bones Would Rain from the Sky" sounds intriguing and is now on my "to read" list.
Also, I guess everyone could figure out that I meant anthroPOmorphic :oops: in my first post to this thread.

[Missy Stewart]

You're right Alberta!!! It is difficult when EVERY other person living around you has a "cuddly" peace maker for a dog... while you have the dog that growls at everyone!! I also have spent a LOT of time reading up on dog behavior/aggression since acquiring my JRT Sonny! Seriously, if you ever want to vent about the difficulties in having a dog with aggression problems, PM me :wink: Try having a neighbor who makes it his business to gossip around your entire complex about your dogs problems!! :(

I have a lot of the same reccomendations as others on this site! But the books have been helpful. I would definately read Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson. I would also buy The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell. Aggression in Dogs by Brenda Aloff is also EXCELLENT!!! It is a bit pricey.. but you can buy it off of Amazon for much less.

I am also going to check into some of these other reccomendations! They loook great! I could always use more reading material :wink:

[Rowena Fry]

Jo,
I know what you mean about doing Jan Fennell's method wholeheartedly, because I can just imagine my mum's face when I tell her she has to eat a cracker/biscuit and pretend it's coming from the dog bowl before giving our dog her food! She thinks the training I'm doing now is all a bit crazy, I daren't add that to the mix! I do suppose that Fennell's theory is a bit like NILIF actually, I thought that too when I started reading the books!

[Missy Stewart]

Yeah! I went on amazon and ordered five new books on dog training/aggression!! Some of them were reccomended here (Scaredy Dog and Dr Jekyl...) and a few others I chose on my own. I'll let you all know how I like them. That is once I find the time to read them all!!!!

[David Crandall]

For aggression:
Aggression in Dogs by Brenda Aloff
Fiesty Fido by Patricia McConnell, Ph.D. and Karen London, Ph.D.


We have both of these books (and all the others in the list there). I think think that Feisty Fido is a good quick read, and will get you started really well. Brenda's book goes into much more depth, and has a lot of very detailed exercises for you to work on.

We haven't had to deal with dog-human aggression, but we have a lot of dog-dog aggression in one of our rescue elkhounds. It really makes life difficult, since we have to keep her away from our other dog; and unfortunately it restricts us from getting other rescues right now, since she is an otherwise wonderful dog. We get jealous when we see other people who have two dogs playing around with each other. Brenda Aloff lives relatively near us (a couple of hours), so we were able to go and work with her directly a little, which really helped.

After doing that, I can tell you that it's well worth it to see a pro when you're having a lot of trouble. Some people see it as a sign of weakness in their own ability to train, but I think it's more important to be able to recognize your own limitations and know when to get help before someone gets hurt.

Dave

[Grace Erick]

When I get books from the library, I look them up online to see what's available and choose the latest books to put on hold and have them brought to my library from what ever library they are in. I picked up this one book that was dated 2002, then I see inside it is copyrighted back to 1947!!!!!!! I can see it was updated by the new foods that were listed, but it still had wrong old information, like Kava being good for a dog. It's been found to be bad for people and dogs. It was a plant root used to calm a person a few years ago and was the rage in herbal stores.

I'll go to the bookstore and have a seat and bring a few dog books with me.

[Alberta Hanko]

Hi - Haven't looked at the book list here in a bit. I agree with you, David about getting a professinal to help when you're having a lot of trouble. I did see a behaviorist and she was able to diagnose my Linus' problems, fear aggression towards both dogs and men (more than anything else). However, she does not work training sessions with aggressive dogs. I would love to find someone who could work along with me, and crtique what I may be doing wrong, and make suggestions and watch our progress. So I do a lot of reading, work hard on obedience, and very carefully work more exposure to other dogs (from a long distance) and people, also using distance. How I wish I also lived near Brenda Aloff!

Missy had talked about how hard it is to have the neighborhood terror (that's sort of what I call mine). My neighbors go by with their loveable pets, and there I am working Linus with peanut butter to keep him calm. I agree--I would not trade this for anything, because this dog has taught me so much (patience being a biggy :-)), but I surely also get ejalous when I see people playing with their dogs, who are playing with other dogs and kids!

Will look forward to seeing more recommendations on books, and what everyone is reading and how they like it.

Alberta & Linus

[Missy Stewart]

It sounds like Sonny and Linus are pretty similar!! That is so true about standing outside with a jar of peanut butter and a clicker trying to keep your dog calm while others walk by with their freindly dogs ;) And your right, it is hard watching other peoples dogs play happily with other dogs and kids... when you know that your dog couldent handle the situation....

Have you had problems with Linus interacting with kids?? We have struggled terribly with Sonny's inability to tolerate children... Mike and I are students, so we don't have children, we also do not know anyone with kids. It never dawned on us how Sonny's lack of exposure to children would end up backfiring on us in the future. Things are slowly improving (he no longer growls at them from a distance).. but even getting him to this point involved long hours spent in parks sitting 50 feet away.. rewarding every time he quit growling. It is never easy having a dog that does not LOVE children... people look at you like you have broken some sort of sacred omen or something! :(

It is too bad that you cannot find a trainer near you that will work with an aggressive dog. They are such a great asset. We have one that we use with Sonny. She regularly takes on aggressive dogs.. which has worked out well for us. I hope some of these book suggestions end up helping you. People can always give you their opnions, but its good to generate a wealth of knowledge on your own ;) If you want, I'll let you know how some of the new ones that I ordered work out... Good luck!! And again, feel free to talk to me anytime!

[Clair Taberner]

i notice there's a lot of recs for aggression, i was wondering if anyone who's read these could comment on how appropriate they would be for a puppy who's just starting to show some agression as i want to nip it in the bud, obviously.
oh and also if there's a book more suitable than others. thanks all for yr time

[Missy Stewart]

First, how old is your pup? When puppies are really young, they are still learning bite inhibition and will often get a little rough during play! It is not uncommon for a pup to use its mouth on you when excited. Sonny grew out of this phase around 4-5 months.

Also, what makes you think that the pup is acting aggressively. Is it growling, showing its teeth, drawing blood when it bites? Does it only growl during play, or does it growl when being approached, handled, or moved?

It will be easier to help you if you give this information ;)

[Clair Taberner]

sorry didn't even occur to me.duh.... amber is coming up 8mnths. she has recently started to chase dogs when they r running fast (ie fetching a ball for their owner/ timid dogs that run from her) i am 100% that she is being aggressive now as today she confirmed my suspicions by trying to attack a dog as it ran. the other dog was playing with it's owner and as it ran to fetch she ran very close alongside and over shot it as the other dog stopped to retrieve it's ball then she about turned to get up to it again as it ran back to it's owner she again got right up close near enough running glued to it's side and then bit at it's scruff and went for a shake except luckily she lost her footing(they were running up a steep hill) and i grabbed her and put her onlead. it's almost like when u watch a docu about wolves and it shows them hunting and how one will go in for the kill running clsoe alongside matching the speed then reach over and grab. perhaps i am reading it wrong but i still don't find it at all acceptable for her to behave this way let alone what the other owner must of been thinking. unfortunately it was only hindsight i realise i should of found out what sex/spayed etc to get a fuller picture as she tried to attack a jrt bitch that was in heat not so long ago. it could be hormonal as she is reaching "that age", but again the reasons do not make it ok to do it.

[Missy Stewart]

It does sound like your dog is starting to display signs of a problem. I had a lot of these same issues with my dog Sonny, and interestingly enough, he also began displaying signs around 8-9 months. The book that I have found the most useful is Brends Aloff's book Agression in Dogs. She offers an assortment of illustrations/explanations to help you better understand your dogs body language.. which will in turn help you to prevent a bad situation before it occurs. The second half of the book is dedicated to specific training tecniques that you can use to help an aggressive dog, which are also very useful. Like others have mentioned, the book is a bit pricey, but amazon offers it for considerably less. It is completely worth the price in my opinion. Most of the other books that I have read have been based around dog culture. While these books are important and useful, they will not supply the how-to format that you find more so in Brenda Aloff's book.

Dealing with an aggressive dog is never easy. There will always be people who will talk down to you b/c of it, and others who will preach at you about euthinization, there will also be people who will judge your character based on your dogs, and others who will simply cast disaprooving glances your way. I even had one lady tell me that a dog that does not love children is mean spirited and should be destroyed :mad: The moral here... you cannot let these people get to you, because you WILL run into them! You know your dog better than anyone else! Never forget that, because unfortunantly, there are never any quick fixes when it comes to a confused dog. If you notice the problem escalating I would seek out a good trainer. Sonny's trainer has been invaluable to me, not to mention his improvements in behavior! In selecting a trainer, choose someone who uses positive reinforcment. These people use much kinder training tecniques and will work at building a strong, healthy relationship between you and your dog. Good luck, I hope you get the situation under control.

Also, you could always try this post on the defensive dogs forum... I'm sure others would have some good advice there.

[Grace Erick]

I have two books from the library on homemade foods. One seems better which is Better Foods for Dogs, and the other The Good Food Cookbook for Dogs seems to be lacking. They don't say to make veggies small and don't mention vitamin supplements and adding bone meal, which is something that can be really bad if you don't know how much to add.

[Alberta Hanko]

Well, I for sure have developed a sense of humor. One time, a while back, a dog went by and Linus was screeching and carrying on. I got him back inside the house--this is before we came up with the peanut butter idea and Paatricia McConnell's "watch". My neighbor from across the street came running over when I went back out on my own all concerned that the puppy (he was at that time) had been hit by a car!

Like Sonny, Linus get's really nervous around kids, and will growl and lunge. I do have a granddaughter, who is going to be two years old soon. He is good with her, but from the time she was born we worked with him, first bringing her blanket from the hospital in, and then of course he would see her in our arms. However, I am very cautious, and always supervise them. She must think Grandma always smells like a deli; and she loves to treat Linus and her own dog from my bait bag, first telling them to "sit". I do keep him away from her face, and I am always with the two of them. Linus' exposure to kids wasn't great either. The aggression is something that seemed to develop as he became a little older--just over a year. The dog aggression came sooner, I had him in basic obedience class and an older dog kept going for him. The trainer never suggested one of us should not have been in class. I knew even less then than I do now ;-). At his last class, he completely went nuts when the other dog came in late--and that has been our problem. I have been able to introduce him to a couple of other dogs, mostly female, and we work with a couple of neighbor's dogs against the fence which separates us--that part is going well. On leash not so much. He is not really nervous with women, more with men, and then kids. But I never have problems with women approaching him when I ask them not to. I take him out on my front porch when the kids are playing football in the street, and heavily treat him for being calm.

I hear ya about them being aggressive with kids--sure does get some looks.

It's great that you have someone there who can work with Sonny and you. I keep checking around here--a lot of behaviorists who are willing to diagnose. I will keep looking though.

Let me know which books you like. I really did get a lot of help from Feisty Fido--set us up for our peanut butter watch!

Alberta & Linus

[Missy Stewart]

I ordered a bunch of books last week... I bought Fiesty Fido, Scaredy Dog, Don't Shoot the Dog, The Cautious Canine, Jelly Bean vs. Dr Jekyl... and also (more for fun) Bones would rain from the sky. I have a few good books on dog behavior... but a lot of my books focus on raw feeding, allergies, vaccinations, and holistic care. These are all great books.. but do little in treating an aggressive dog! I have been reading Bones would rain from the sky the past couple days, and I really like it so far! The book gives such a unique perspective on relationships. I think its great! I'm looking forward to reading the rest.

A quick brag ;) I have been diligently taking Sonny places where I know he will run into a lot of different kinds of people, and have been rewarding like crazy every time he passes people without reacting negatively towards them. Things have been going SO MUCH better. Today, he was actually getting excited over people approaching b/c he knew that people=treats. It was refreshing seeing him act nice! It sounds like you are using a similar tecnique Alberta... is Linus starting to respond for you??

Clair.. you will rarely ever find two books on dog nutrtion that agree with each other! But you are completely right about dogs needing some form of bone in their diet. The bone supplies the much needed calcium. A lot of people choose to feed veggies, but i use green tripe with Sonny! Whew! The stuff smells awful but has worked wonderfully with him! :tup: :tup:

[Grace Erick]

I had my library put a book on hold from another library for me that was dated 2002. I try to only read books from 2000 and on for the most current information. Just by chance, I noticed that the book said it was copyrighted in 1947!!!!! This woman took her old book and tried to update it and put it out as new. It had old and wrong information in it.

It said Kava, the herbal root, that was so popular years ago to make people calm as being good for dogs. Well, that was proven to be dangerous. I think she should pull her books out of the library.