Need Advice from Advisors about Behaviorists

[Alberta Hanko]

Hi - I have been working with Linus for 2 1/2 years now. For those who don't remember us from DD, Linus is both dog aggressive and human (mostly men--but kids running all around will also set him off, as will rabbits, possums, motorcycles, etc.). I took Linus to a behaviorist when the dog aggression first surfaced (he was 7 months old) for a consultation, and she suggested a few exercises, but at that time she sort of had us walking towards other dogs, with Linus on a GL and me stuffing special treats into him (which he couldn't eat because he was so stressed). Then the human thing surfaced, at around a year of age, he lunged at a man who went to pet him. Back to the behaviorist and she suggested more exercises, but this time we kept our distance. I had asked her then and maybe a year ago, if she did private training with dogs such as Linus, but she doesn't. Linus has made many improvements over the last couple of years, such as he doesn't redirect at me :-), which is definitely a big step,and he can take peanut butter on a stick most of the time when he sees another dog from a long distance. His recall has improved a lot--still working on it, particularly outside where there are so many distractions, but I feel we are at a standstill with his aggression issues. I would like to see a behaviorist again, but would like someone who would work with us, and let me know when I am doing something wrong, or what I should do. I have looked at the APDT list in my area and have some questions.

First is - since Linus is set off by men more easily than women, should I avoid a male behaviorist? Next is many just advertise "behavioral counseling", some say "behavior modification", "behavior problem solving, treatment for abnormal behavior and aggression". What should I consider? (I must admit Linus' behavior is normal for him--he's a dog and this is what he does). I realize I need to call these people but figured maybe you guys could give me your expert input and suggest what I look for. I do know to only go with people who use positive reinforcement. But what other questions should I ask?

I love this dog, but feel bad that he lives his life so fearful of things outside our home. He loves to go out with us, and we hate to leave him home, so if there is anyway I can help him to relax and look to me when we go out, I want to do it.

Thanks as ever, for all of your help.

Alberta & Linus

[Roberta Eliot]

Rather than worrying about the characteristics of the behaviorist, I'd suggest you concentrate on what you want to accomplish.

A goal such as, "I want my dog to stop being aggressive" is too vague. Try to articulate just exactly what the next step you would like to take. Something like, "I want my dog to be able to focus around moderate distractions" might be more reasonable. You know your dog and his current limitations. Use that as a starting point.

Next, with your goal written down, approach each behaviorist and ask what kinds of protocols they have used in the past with dogs in similar situations. Ask about their philosophies, their successes, even their failures. Ask if they feel you have set a reasonable and attainable goal.

Good luck and let us know who/what you find.

--Roberta

Hi - I have been working with Linus for 2 1/2 years now. For those who don't remember us from DD, Linus is both dog aggressive and human (mostly men--but kids running all around will also set him off, as will rabbits, possums, motorcycles, etc.). I took Linus to a behaviorist when the dog aggression first surfaced (he was 7 months old) for a consultation, and she suggested a few exercises, but at that time she sort of had us walking towards other dogs, with Linus on a GL and me stuffing special treats into him (which he couldn't eat because he was so stressed). Then the human thing surfaced, at around a year of age, he lunged at a man who went to pet him. Back to the behaviorist and she suggested more exercises, but this time we kept our distance. I had asked her then and maybe a year ago, if she did private training with dogs such as Linus, but she doesn't. Linus has made many improvements over the last couple of years, such as he doesn't redirect at me :-), which is definitely a big step,and he can take peanut butter on a stick most of the time when he sees another dog from a long distance. His recall has improved a lot--still working on it, particularly outside where there are so many distractions, but I feel we are at a standstill with his aggression issues. I would like to see a behaviorist again, but would like someone who would work with us, and let me know when I am doing something wrong, or what I should do. I have looked at the APDT list in my area and have some questions.

First is - since Linus is set off by men more easily than women, should I avoid a male behaviorist? Next is many just advertise "behavioral counseling", some say "behavior modification", "behavior problem solving, treatment for abnormal behavior and aggression". What should I consider? (I must admit Linus' behavior is normal for him--he's a dog and this is what he does). I realize I need to call these people but figured maybe you guys could give me your expert input and suggest what I look for. I do know to only go with people who use positive reinforcement. But what other questions should I ask?

I love this dog, but feel bad that he lives his life so fearful of things outside our home. He loves to go out with us, and we hate to leave him home, so if there is anyway I can help him to relax and look to me when we go out, I want to do it.

Thanks as ever, for all of your help.

Alberta & Linus

[Renee]

Alberta -

The APDT is a good place to start looking for trainers, but remember the only thing those people did to get on the APDT list is pay $100 to join - so interview them thoroughly. Some of those people are Certified Pet Dog Trainers (CPDT) which means they passed an examination about dogs, learning theory, etc and have a certain amount of experience and professional references.

You can also look at the www.IAABC.org. This is the International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants. These people must have certain educational requirements (either a PhD, Masters, or other approved educational programs), recommendations and experience to become a clincal member.

The ACABN is a list of totally postive trainers and behaviorists. http://www.acabn.com/

For Veterinary Behaviorists http://www.veterinarybehavi orists.org

Animal Behaviorists http://www.animalbehavior.o rg


The main difference between behaviorist & behavior consultant is mostly education (but not necessarily). Vets generally get certified through the American College of Veterinary Behaviorists. Many people who have a PhD or Masters degrees get certified through the Animal Behavior Society. These two groups of people are true behaviorists - the Phd's, Masters and DMV's. Everyone else is a behavior consultant. Though some people with DMV's, PhD's and Masters degrees opt get certified though the IAABC or other institution and are called behavior consultants.

And of course there are some people who don't have any of these credentials, experience, or education and still call themselves a behaviorist or behavior consultant when they should maybe be calling themselves trainers. The problem is that there is no legal enforcement of the terminology. Where as if you went to see a doctor, you know (legally) he had a minimum amount of education and passed a statewide test.

No matter who you hire, make sure you thoroughly interview them. While I generally think that the more credentials, education and certifications, the better - never rely on that. The most important thing is to know what kind of methods that these people are going to use on your dog.

Good Luck,

[Amber]

Wow! I wish someone would have told me about the acabn website! Their course on "Shy to Confident" seems like it would help me out a lot for Sally. If nothing else, their website just gave me two great books to start in my quest of helping her!

Thanks for telling Alberta about the site, Renee!

[Daniela Jantzen]

Alberta,

Personally, I prefer behavioural experts with a medical background as many problems CAN have medical causes (in our case it was borderline hypothyroidism, a type thyroid disease which can lead to periods of insecurity, aggression, anxieties, sound sensitivity and other problems) and many vets don't know what to look for exactly when examining problem dogs.

Other than that: Renee and Alberta already gave you plenty of good info you might need on this subject. ;)

Danny

[Renee]

The only problem is that there are not that many veterinary behaviorists to go around....

[Daniela Jantzen]

The only problem is that there are not that many veterinary behaviorists to go around....
Nope, unfortunately not. But there are some pretty good and experienced vets who can recommend good and experienced trainers who also know what to look for.
Plus it could always be helpful to call someone from one the behaviourist lists who lives relatively close and simply ask for a recommendation in your area. And how knows, maybe on of these experts is also willing to listen to your case and provide you with details as what needs to be checked as well...?

Danny

[Alberta Hanko]

Wow--you guys just blew me away with your advice. Thanks. Roberta--I had not really thought about setting a goal. Afraid too often I just grab the entire problem and try to run with it. Although I know he needs to focus on me when he is facing (to him) a threatening situation, I had not thought abut the fact that that may just be my goal. Renee B--I am still reading, and have printed out the IAABC list also, to compare. I do appreciate all the information on these sites! Daniela, as always your insight is so appreciated. For some reason there are not any vet-behaviorists in my area, but the idea of also speaking with my vet for a recommendation, or showing her some of the names is great. And I will get referrals from whomever I chose. I had looked at the Feisty Fido classes at St. Hubert--just online, but I feel I would be pushing Linus too hard at this time, think we might need a little one on one. Also, sorry to repeat, or hoping this isn't a ridiculous question, but since men are such a large problem with him am I over worrying using a male trainer? My DH says it might be good for him. I am able to get him to meet a guy if it is Linus and the guy, and not a lot of other stuff going on. And of course a trainer would certainly have the experience I don't.

Thanks for all of you advice. Love this site.

Alberta & Linus

[Amber]

Sally is afraid of men and I didn't realize exactly how huge of a problem this was until I had to take her to the vet, who was a male. She shook like a leaf while on the table, tears ran down her eyes, she peed and pooped everywhere, and as soon as he put her on the floor she ran into her crate (which isn't an unusual thing for her!).

Is Linus afraid of men or aggressive toward them? Sally's not a biter, fortunately, but it may make Linus' problems worse if you use a male trainer. My friend who was going to help me with Sally is moving and a male is taking her place, so I have to do it on my own now. However, you know your own dog. If you can introduce Linus to the trainer beforehand and he seems okay with the trainer, then it may be okay to proceed. There is one dog at my shelter that tries to attack males that walk past her run (we don't keep them in crates, they get indoor/outdoor access at all times). There have been 2 or 3 men that have come to look at her that she rolled over on her back for! You never know until you introduce them in some cases!

[Alberta Hanko]

Hi Amber - Yes Linus is aggressive towards men, and I think it is because he is afraid, but that's the way he reacts, I lunge, snap and the scarey thing goes away. It started when he was maybe 1.5 years old and actually worsened--probably because it worked. The guy he lunged at was reaching to pet him and Linus lunged and snapped. The guy pulled back, and I moved Linus away. I had not looked for the signs that he was that nervous around men. He does have bite inhibition--didn't connect at all, but it was scarey for us all. And I sure wouldn't want to push the issue. His vet is a woman, and although he is nervous when he goes there, they can pet him. I take his muzzle, but have not had to use it there.

Poor Sally--and you--it must break your ehart to see how frightened she is. But she is lucky she has you!

I have been able to introduce Linus to a few men. I take him outside to meet on lead and tell them to completely ignore him. He for some reason tends to climb up on people he doesn't know, almost trying to make eye contact and sniffing them. I suggest they ignore him, don't look, and don't reach. He does settle down after a bit, and they ignore him. I clicker train him, and use the clicker when he is calm, and we also work targeting with the guy who is visiting. I also keep Linus on lead near me during a visit. I did notice when they walk through the door, and he is on lead, or off, he charges and is much more reactive. My business partner came in the other day, and Linus knows and loves him, however, Linus had come in from outdoors, saw someone different there and charged. My partner is dog savvy, just stood there, and then Linus realized who it was, and immediately was thrilled to see him.

Thanks for your help.

Alberta & Linus

[Daniela Jantzen]

.... Also, sorry to repeat, or hoping this isn't a ridiculous question, but since men are such a large problem with him am I over worrying using a male trainer? My DH says it might be good for him. I am able to get him to meet a guy if it is Linus and the guy, and not a lot of other stuff going on. And of course a trainer would certainly have the experience I don't....


This really depends on the skills and ability of the male trainer, how he acts amongst dogs, how he displays himself in the eyes of the dogs.
My boyfriend is usually the one handling the very aggressive or absolutely timid dogs in our day care - not because I can't, but because he likes challenges an has no problem sitting on the ground for 3 hours, showing calming signals to a former stray dog who ends up sleeping in his lap at the end of the day..... I would trust him with every male-aggressive dog as well. A male friend of mine means well,too, and also has lots of experiences. But due to his body language things would not work out at all with your dog has he is always standing very upright and frontal by nature (never got him to lower his upper body at all!).
So depending on the individual skills trainer, a male one should be no problem. If you realize that maybe a female person would be better for now: another option could be contacting the local humane society or Search and Rescue organisation. I am sure you would be able to find experienced men there who could help you out in (staged) training sessions. This way you could benefit from the knowledge of trainers and aids and maybe get the best results in the shortest amount of time.

Danny

[Alberta Hanko]

Where is your day care located Danny? :-) How I wish it was close to me. Your boyfriend sure does handle them perfectly. You are right, his trigger is a guy, staring at him, and meeting him face on. A guy who volunteered at one of our local shelters also delivered auto parts to us. We had spoken about Linus many times, and one day he showed up with parts, and I had Linus here. Of course he, like your boyfriend, knew to meet him on a lower level, and not facing him. Now why didn't I think of using a local shelter for help with experienced men there? I am narrowing it down to maybe 5 trainers over the weekend, and will contact them. One is a man, and I will be interested to meet him, his website said only positive training, no choke collars, etc., and did say he worked with behavior modification on aggressive dogs.

Thanks for your help.

Alberta & Linus

[Amber]

Yeah, there's one vet tech at Sally's vet that she absolutely LOVES! I didn't realize this until today because the lady also works as a receptionist for the place, so Sally usually meets her while in her crate. I put her on the table and Sally almost fell asleep while the woman pet and talked to her! It was amazing...it has never done that for anyone but me before today. Whatever I've been doing, thanks to everyone's suggestions on this site and on DD previously, have really helped her!