More new puppy help :)

[zok]

Hello!

I posted on the old forum once before and you all were a terrific help :) so I thought that I would try again!

We adopted our new puppy Piper from a shelter about a week and 1/2 ago (she was 12 weeks old). She was malnourished and has (and is taking medication for) a UTI and kennel cough. She’s doing really well now with gaining weight and is turning into a sturdy and healthy pup (hooray!) but we’ve noticed that her behavior seems to be very young for her age and we’ve been wondering whether she was separated from her mom too early.

We have another dog, Ruby (who is now two years old), who we adopted at 12 weeks and the differences in behavior between the two of them at that age are substantial. I know that all pups have their own personalities, but I don’t recall Ruby ever seeming this ‘young’. My other half was raised on a farm and has been surrounded by baby animals from birth and we both agree that it seems as though Piper may not have been socialized as a young puppy.

Piper is a rescue so we don’t know anything about her life up until several weeks ago. It’s hard to describe why we both feel that this may be true (she coos and grunts like a human infant, she doesn’t know how to clean/groom herself, she’s very easily startled - but not aggressive in any way, etc.) We have wondered if the shelter had her age wrong, but there is an actual date for her birthday (not an estimated date of birth) on her paperwork, so we can only assume that they had accurate information.

Is there any way to tell whether she was taken from her mother too early? If we do determine that this is the case, is there anything in particular that we should do to help her to grow up to be a healthy dog?

We may be wrong (and I always leave a little room for that :) ) … but if anyone has any experience with this, your advice or any info that you can provide would surely be appreciated!

Thanks!

[Maria Juliano]

Hello!

I posted on the old forum once before and you all were a terrific help :) so I thought that I would try again!

We adopted our new puppy Piper from a shelter about a week and 1/2 ago (she was 12 weeks old). She was malnourished and has (and is taking medication for) a UTI and kennel cough. She’s doing really well now with gaining weight and is turning into a sturdy and healthy pup (hooray!) but we’ve noticed that her behavior seems to be very young for her age and we’ve been wondering whether she was separated from her mom too early.

We have another dog, Ruby (who is now two years old), who we adopted at 12 weeks and the differences in behavior between the two of them at that age are substantial. I know that all pups have their own personalities, but I don’t recall Ruby ever seeming this ‘young’. My other half was raised on a farm and has been surrounded by baby animals from birth and we both agree that it seems as though Piper may not have been socialized as a young puppy.

Piper is a rescue so we don’t know anything about her life up until several weeks ago. It’s hard to describe why we both feel that this may be true (she coos and grunts like a human infant, she doesn’t know how to clean/groom herself, she’s very easily startled - but not aggressive in any way, etc.) We have wondered if the shelter had her age wrong, but there is an actual date for her birthday (not an estimated date of birth) on her paperwork, so we can only assume that they had accurate information.

Is there any way to tell whether she was taken from her mother too early? If we do determine that this is the case, is there anything in particular that we should do to help her to grow up to be a healthy dog?

We may be wrong (and I always leave a little room for that :) ) … but if anyone has any experience with this, your advice or any info that you can provide would surely be appreciated!

Thanks!

Hi Zok,

I'm no expert. IMHO, It's only been less than two weeks since Piper came into your loving home... she's still very much traumatized by her move...no matter how loving the "new" parents are, some puppies have a tendency to behave in a similar fashion as Piper. It's possible she was removed from her mother and sibblings too soon, but I think since you got her at 12 weeks, she can still be socialized with all sorts new people, other puppies, older dogs ( as long as you know they had all their vaccines and are tolerant of puppies ), short car trips, supervised outdoor play, children of all ages, teenagers, and so forth.

Please, read on the 2nd page, under PUPPIES THREADS, ORIGINAL ARTICLES, by Renee Premaza ( advisor to DD and now DB ) posted by Lorie Bonham on " Important Information for all New Puppy Owners. " You'll get tremendous results by following the advise given in this article.

You are right when you said " all pups have their own personalities. " Piper may be timid at this time, but with your loving patience and using the tools in the article mentioned above and the "NILIF" ( Nothing In Life Is Free ) program, she can blossom into a healthy furbaby. If you want to read more about NILIF, go to: http://www.k9deb.com/nilif.htm (http://www.k9deb.com/nilif.htm)

How is Ruby around Piper and vice- versa?

Keep posting your questions, the members in DB are great and so are the advisors.

Best wishes and keep us posted.

[Rowena Fry]

Hi Zok!
It may well be that Piper was separated from her mum and littermates at an early age, but you can definitely help her by giving her more opportunities to socialise now! She probably doesn't have all her vaccinations yet, but you can still carry her around, take her out in the car, and take her to friends houses. Get her out in the world and allow to be exposed to as many different places, people and vaccinated, friendly dogs as possible!

Be careful not to coddle and pick her up when she becomes frightened of new objects/sounds/people etc, but reassure her in a calm voice and remain upbeat and happy. If she gets attention for acting afraid, she may learn that this is the accepted behaviour and will continue to act in this way.

I have to say that I'm pretty lucky. We got our pup at 10 weeks, after she'd had plenty of time with her mum and two brothers and she's not afraid of ANYTHING! During her first week at home, we had to get some windows fixed and it required some drilling, but she just looked up at the man, cocked her head a bit, then went back to her kong!

Good luck with everything and welcome to doggiebag!
xoxox

[Eric Vecc]

You have gotten some good info thus far, so let me just reinforce it alittle. Socialization is most effective up to 16 weeks (4 months). Honestly, go out of your way to find rediculous things for your pup to see and experience. Turn over a chair in the living room and let him explore. Vacume the floor. Dance in front of him. Sing a song. Take him to as many places as you can, woods, parking lots, grass, stone driveways, ballfields.

Many new dog owners say, "That is stupid, I don't need to do all that!". Then their dog turns 2 and won't get in the car, is scared of everything or becomes aggressive out of fear. We socialized Bailey in every way we could think of, especially since we didn't know his exact age and when he was taken from his mother. The article given to you has much of this info in it.

One other thing I suggest (which we did not think of) is to place your dog on a table and examine. This will get him used to being on a vet table.

Also play with and explore every inch of him, ears, paws, nose, whiskers, teeth. We used to rub Bailey's pads and play with his ears. Now he not only lets us do (for claw clipping or ear cleaning) but he loves it.

Best of luck with you new addition. I am sure he will turn out fine!

[Rowena Fry]

Ohhhh, that's a good one Eric - put your pup on a table and groom and examine them all over! We started doing this very early on and my pup actually LIKES the vets office, especially when we put her up on the table! I've never experienced that before, that's for sure!

;)

[Rebekah Hartman]

I had a thought on the "actual birth date" the shelter gave you. Our Samson is also a rescue puppy and they gave us an exact DOB for him, when I asked about it specifically (because it would have made him over a month older than they said they thought he was), they said, "Oh, that's just an approximate date". Anyway, when we got him he was probably about 10 weeks (date of birth would've indicated closer to 15 weeks), and we have since figured out that he probably was closer to 10 based on the "milestones" in development (e.g., losing teeth). All to say that yours may not be the age her DOB indicates. The vet reinforced my idea of how old ours actually is.

Also, about putting the dog up on a table. We did this, too - except that he got Parvo 4 days after he came to our home. We treated him here (home) mostly and a lot of the shots, etc he got were right near the sink (where he gets his water, which he LOVES). Anyway, in spite of the early "trauma" related to illness, he also likes the vet and doesn't even put up a fuss for vaccinations (he squeaks a little, but that's all). Try to make all these odd experience fun and part of play or at least just really routine *yawn* like touching the nail clippers to each nail once a day (not actually clipping), and your dog will most likely actually begin to like those things.

For other things, like the vacuum, you can find articles on how to desensitize using treats, so the dog gets a reward when the noise happens and begins to associate vacuum with happy things. Sorry so long - I had more thoughts on this than I thought!

[Chris Smith]

Everyone has already given great ideas and suggestions for your new pup which I would definitely recommend following. I got my dog from a shelter at 4 months old which everyone said is at the end of the correct socialization phase. I had no info on his background and they guessed his age. The trainers that initially saw him said his behaviour showed that he was taken too young from both littermates and mom.

Long story short, I began his socialization at 4 months of age and even though he didn't have all his shots, I did whatever I could to get him exposure to everything possible - different people (men, women, old, young, kids), other puppies going through shots, etc. I would take him in the car (even though I had to carry him in so as not expose him to parvo) and drive him around to just see things. Sometimes I would just park in a busy parking lot so he could see people and cars and other dogs, etc.

End of the long story is that Nalu has a wonderful temperment. He gets along with all dogs and all people. He is a happy go lucky, playful puppy (7 months old now) that is well adjusted and well socialized.

Hang in there and be patient and just keep setting your dog up to succeed!!

[zok]

Thank you all for the excellent info!

I don't know where to begin to reply and answer the questions! Take a deep breath ... this is going to be a LONG post!!! LOL :)

From everything that has been said, I feel like we're on the right track with Piper (whether she is still adjusting to her new home or whether she still needs to be socialized). We are definitely socializing Piper as much as we can - although she cannot be exposed to other dogs or pups right now (except for Ruby) because of the kennel cough. She has already met a bunch of people (relatives and friends) in our home and at the vet and she seems very comfy with humans. She plays a lot with Ruby ... they mouth each other and run around like maniacs and roughhouse. I keep both of them with me all of the time right now since they're still getting to know each other and we don't want any 'doggie misunderstandings' :) I think that Ruby is teaching Piper some good things. Piper just started making the play pose with her bum in the air and she likes to instigate with Ruby and then run away and then run back and pounce. Ruby has been a bit of a brat with us since Piper came home but she has been very gentle with Piper (changing her type of play as Piper becomes more healthy). We’re working to reinforce all of Ruby’s rules, but I think that this is to be expected since she lived in a one-dog house before Piper arrived and she is adjusting ... overall they seem to like to be together and both of them whine if they are separated for any length of time.

Piper dislikes the vet and is TERRIFIED of the car (which is totally foreign to us because Ruby LOVES to ride in the car). We've been trying to take Piper on short trips and we've decided to start taking her out to the car to just sit with her inside, without going anywhere, to get her accustomed to being inside. Unfortunately, she shakes like a leaf and won't go anywhere near the car unless picked up and placed inside (which is a feat in and of itself since she sticks all of her legs out and pushes against the doorframe). She also throws up on any longer trip (the trip to the vet is 15 min there and 15 min home and she throws up on the way back) but the vet doesn't feel that this is a medical issue. I have a feeling that she has a nasty imprint on vehicles ... so we're working on helping her to be more comfortable when she has to go somewhere.

We're doing our best not to coddle her but I have to admit that she was trembling so hard after she threw up in the car on the way home from the vet today that I pulled over to try to calm her by holding her for a while ... but generally we just respond to her whimpering/fear as Rowena Fry mentioned ... speaking to her in a calm and happy voice.

As Eric Vecc mentioned, we've been singing to her and talking to her and goofing around in front of her and trying to expose her to different things from her first days in her new home. She responds (at first) by whimpering a lot and runs from the loud noises but we're seeing at least some improvement there … I did get her to come within 10 feet of the coffee grinder this morning (after it was quiet) so that's a start!

We gently tug on all of her parts (ears, paws, tail) and open her mouth and look in her ears as much as we can. We did that with Ruby and we have found that it was a very good thing to do ... Ruby is not even remotely phased by any of that at this point ... she just keeps doing whatever she was doing before but on three legs or without wagging her tail, etc. I completely agree with Eric about this and hope that Piper will become comfortable with it as well.

I like the ideas of: putting her on a table and taking nail clippers to each nail every day without clipping ... we will try these soon!

We want to get Piper around other dogs ASAP ... and we would like to enroll her in a puppy training class, but we have to wait for her 'cold' to clear up. This is something that we did with Ruby and we felt that it made a HUGE difference in the way that she responded to other dogs (and to us too!) We also took Ruby to various pet supply stores a lot when she was little (after vaccinations) so that she could meet people, dogs and kids in an indoor setting and we plan to do that with Piper as soon as we can.

We definitely still wonder about Piper's age and as Rebekah Hartman mentioned, we have wondered about Piper's official birth date. Since Piper was rescued BY a shelter FROM a different shelter her records are very sketchy up until a week before we adopted her ... so it's possible that she is indeed younger than we think.

After this massive posting I think that I've addressed everything (Whew!) but I do want to say that when I took Piper to the vet today she had gained another 3 pounds (she was under 11 pounds a week and 1/2 ago and now she's 17)! We were so excited to find this out ... we only have 3 more pounds to go until she is at a healthy 'vet recommended' weight!

Also, I looked into NILIF and I was happy to see that this is very similar to the way that we trained Ruby and the way that we have been training Piper ... we just didn't know that it was called this!! :) Piper has already learned to 'Sit' at the door before going outside and she is learning to 'Wait' instead of barreling out when the door is opened. She is also learning 'Sit' and 'Wait' at her food dish and we're working on 'Lay Down'. Ruby is trained with both voice and hand signals and Piper seems to be picking up on that too.

I will most definitely find and read the item by Renee Premaza ... I'm open to all kinds of advice!

I can't thank you all enough for all of the information that you provided! We really appreciate it!

zok

[Rowena Fry]

Hey Zok!
It's great to hear that Piper is getting on so well, and brilliant on her weight gain! Great looking dogs by the way, love the pic!

Take care!
Rowena xoxox

[Maria Juliano]

Hi Zok,

I echo Reweena...glad to hear Piper is adjusting well. Keep up the great job your doing with them and keep posting.

Best wishes,