Walking with Linus

[Alberta Hanko]

I was going to ask about this on DD, and figure others on here may have the same problems. My Linus, a Shiba Inu mix, is aggressive to both other dogs and men. We are working on both problems, having some small success with other dogs, I am using a "watch" command with peanut butter as our backup. I walk him in parking lots, and keep my distance from other people. Most days we do ok,and sometimes I can get him a little closer, we do light obedience work ("sit" "stay" "here" and also work on loose leash walking, armed with the most delicious of treats and the clicker) in parking lots to keep him occupied and focussed on me. The other day he was having one of "those" days, which he has now and then and just doesn't focus at all. We usually parallel walk and he will keep his eyes on me. We were doing this, and the other person (who didn't know we were practicing on him :lol: ) moved ahead and Linus reacted by barking and pulling (not the strong lunging he used to do but still--). I realized it just wasn't the day for this and brought him back to the car. Does any one else have this problem--off days where you almost feel you are moving backwards? When he is like that, he will be more reactive just walking out the front door--trucks, cars, etc. Although I backup a few steps (and believe me we are going at this at a snail's pace), I wonder if there is something more I can be doing to help him when he is like that.

Thanks, Alberta & Linus

[Summer Magic]

Hi
Glad to be where I can talk about my babies too! When Linus doesn't respond to the watch command try just turning him around so his back is to the stimulus and try the command again. That worked with my dog better than having her attention on the dog, person whatever. Don't walk anywhere with him just turn him around.

[Alberta Hanko]

Good idea. We have been trying that a little. I have noticed that although he may be having a problem getting his focus on me and away from the scarey thing, he becomes almost obsessively fixed on the object of his fear. I have been luring with peanut butter to at least get him to turn away. This works well in the house, at the bay window, and somewhat outside at a great distance. Did you have a problem getting your baby to turn?

Thanks,

Alberta & Linus[/i]

[Summer Magic]

Hi
Yea, Magic was adamant about what she wanted to do. She's small so I'd sometimes reach down and take her by the collar and TURN her around physically. Now she's better about being out and if I run into a situation, I can turn her without much trouble.

[Alberta Hanko]

I now am able to guide him around a little. We are taking a cyberagility course (since he can't be with other dogs :lol: ) and are using turns in that, which do help me when I am out with him. I am smiling because you can turn your baby--he is about 50 pounds--and up until 6 months ago, he would get so upset that he would redirect at me and also his leash. I have to admit, that hasn't been happening lately, and I am now using a a technique in training that I read about. I gently tighten the leash (he is on a flat collar), which will happen if he gets nervous anyway, and then I instantly click and treat. Hopefully this will get him to turn to me as soon as there is any tightening on his leash. The best part is :wink: I spent a lot of time learning to relax with the lead, and actually am relaxed now even when there is something which sets him off.

Alberta & Linus

[Summer Magic]

I know it's a laugh she's 25 pounds soaking wet! :lol: To help you with the turns turn into the dog using your leg, or thigh as a kind of nudge so he has no choice but to follow you around. I am also trying to anticipate problems by being aware of surroundings in the immediate area. I periodically shorten or lengthen her leash so she doesn't react to a change in leash pressure. That way if I see something up ahead or coming toward us that may cause her to spaz out I shorten her leash enough to have control without her knowing that I think there's going to be a problem. :wink:

[Joyce Keeton]

I now am able to guide him around a little. We are taking a cyberagility course (since he can't be with other dogs :lol: ) and are using turns in that, which do help me when I am out with him. I am smiling because you can turn your baby--he is about 50 pounds--and up until 6 months ago, he would get so upset that he would redirect at me and also his leash. I have to admit, that hasn't been happening lately, and I am now using a a technique in training that I read about. I gently tighten the leash (he is on a flat collar), which will happen if he gets nervous anyway, and then I instantly click and treat. Hopefully this will get him to turn to me as soon as there is any tightening on his leash. The best part is :wink: I spent a lot of time learning to relax with the lead, and actually am relaxed now even when there is something which sets him off.

Alberta & Linus

Have you tried the exact technique you are using but with Linus on a Gentle Leader? It takes awhile to get some dogs introduces and used to wearing one but the control you gain from it is tremendous. Not to mention your dog will receive positive feedback as opposed to negative each time it tightens up.

[Colleen]

Hi Joyce!
We are so glad you found us here! We hope that more the of experts from DD will join us. We all were so appreciative of the time and knowledge you shared with us on DD and we hope that others will get to benefit from it as well!
Welcome!
Colleen

[Alberta Hanko]

Hi Joyce--I am so glad to see you here--I appreciate all of the advice you have always been so generous with to all of us on DD.

"Have you tried the exact technique you are using but with Linus on a Gentle Leader?"

Linus started on a GL--when I first had aggression issues with him. I had gone to a behaviorist, who felt I should just slap it on and off we should go. So then we spent a year and a half with him fighting it, and running away from me when I took it out. (And yet this dog is still patient with me!). He was very anxious every time we went out the door with the GL on. Once I found DD, I then learned and tried to back off and desensitize him--but he would dash away. However, I can get him to happily wear a muzzle, using DD advice, he can hardly wait to put it on :lol: . I backed off the GL (although I use it on his only friend because she pulls, and she is great when she stays with me!), and went back to a leash and his flat collar, and have been working harder with basic obedience--sit, stay, and recalls. We are working on turns out front, and I must say he is more relaxed on the flat collar. However--I would still love for him to wear the GL, when we are in parking lots, because he does have his days when he is more reactive and I would feel more confident in taking him closer (although not too close), when we parallel walk. I will start again with the GL just using the techniques for desensitizing, and see what happens.

Thanks, Alberta & Linus

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[Mario Niepel]

One trick to get your dog to turn around is to teach him that whenever you turn, there will be an interesting chase game. For many dogs prey drive (i.e. chase) is stronger that eating a treat. So, teach the dog that on the command 'turn' you will start running in the opposite direction, there will be a little chase and at the end there will be either a tug of war or a treat. Also, the running gets a little bit of the adrenalin out of the system- much more so then munching on a treat.

This technique worked pretty well on my Sammy who battles with on-leash fear aggression.

[Renee Premaza]

Hi Alberta!

In answer to your question about dealing with those bad days, I would suggest that you DON'T work with him when he's not responding well. Set your dog up for success. Neither humans nor dogs have 100% of days when they're doing well. We all have our off-days, and so do our dogs. If he's not up to hard training, then take it easy with him and just do fun stuff. It will give him a rest, and then when you resume training again, he'll do much better for you.

I attended a seminar last year with a Behaviorist/Author by the name of Brenda Aloff. She wrote the book, "Aggression in Dogs." She has a default behavior she uses with dogs whenever they become reactive. That behavior is: BACK UP AND TREAT! If it looks like your dog is going to behave in a reactive manner, immediately walk backwards. By doing this, your dog has no choice but to turn around and face you. Then you will have regained his attention and he will have earned a treat for refocusing on YOU.

Remember that Rome wasn't built in a day. When working on issues like you're doing, and like I had to do with my human aggressive dog, it can take a couple of years. When you're doing difficult training, don't make these training sessions long. Keep them short, even if it means working for 20 minutes or less. You always want to end each session on a positive note. If you end a training session where the dog has not responded well, he'll remember that the next time.

I hope this helps a bit!


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[Renee]

I'd like to add that I would not necessarily use a gentle leader when working issues like leash aggression - especially if your dog does a lot of lunging. It might give you more control, but it could be damaging your dogs head,neck and spine. I have a dog who lunges on lead...She lunges so bad, it was like the gentle leader wasn't even on her. I was worried about her hurting herself, so I changed to a sensation harness. My dog weighs about 45lbs, so I'm not worried about control. If I had a dog who was 80+lbs, that might be a different story. A gentle leader might be in order just for saftey sake.

I attended a seminar by Trish King (and Pia Silvani also). Trish totally confirmed my suspicions because she said there simply hasn't been any studies done on gentle leaders and the damage they can cause. She will not use a gentle leader for dogs who lunge on lead (she uses the sensation harness). Trish King is well known for her work with aggressive dogs and also her abandoment training technique she uses on many leash aggressive dogs.

[Mario Niepel]

I'd like to second Renee's suggestion of the sense-ation harness. It works well to control lunging dogs and it does wonders on dogs pulling/straining on the leash while walking. I now use them on both of my dogs.

[Alberta Hanko]

Hi Renee - Wow am I glad to see you and Joyce here!

"In answer to your question about dealing with those bad days, I would suggest that you DON'T work with him when he's not responding well. "

Linus was having a bad week :) . My DH and I were reviewing what we were doing wrong and I sort of fell back on your saying "if you treat your dog like a person, he'll treat you like a dog". We both love this troubled & troublesome :wink: guy, but DH tends to allow Linus to get a little pushy with him, when Linus barks for attention, he gets it, etc. They are together all day while I am at work. So we are presenting a united front, Linus needs to be on NILIF at all times--very hard on the hubby who loves to spoil all pets. I understand what you are saying about a bad day, that does happen. This one was just never ending. We fell back on the NILIF yesterday, and are doing better with his training.

"I attended a seminar last year with a Behaviorist/Author by the name of Brenda Aloff. She wrote the book, "Aggression in Dogs." She has a default behavior she uses with dogs whenever they become reactive. That behavior is: BACK UP AND TREAT! "

I love that idea. I do have a little trouble getting him to focus on me when there is another dog in the area--but I have been able to get him to face me--and lick at a peanut butter stick I always have in my treat arsenal. I have noticed that he seems to not want to turn his back on whatever it is that is scaring him at the moment--but maybe that makes sense I probably would want to see it too in his position--but am assuming as he gains more confidence in me this will improve. I have read that Brenda Aloff (I have read her book, and refer to it alot) is having an aggressive dog camp in Berlin, NJ in August sometime. Must admit this is very tempting to me, since I am on Long Island, and that is not all that far--could stay 4 days. I feel oftentimes that I would love to have someone sort of show me what I am doing wrong, and correct me where I need it when I am out with Linus. Oftentimes I feel my lack of experience holds us back.

"When working on issues like you're doing, and like I had to do with my human aggressive dog, it can take a couple of years."

I admire all that you did with your dog Jack, and my heart went out to you when he died so young.

"When you're doing difficult training, don't make these training sessions long. "

We have been doing about 10 minutes 2-4 times per day, depending on how he is responding. Good idea about always ending on a positive note. I have noticed when I get the clicker out, he comes running and can hardly wait to begin .

As always your advice had helped alot.

Thanks, Alberta & Linus

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