could she be becoming a bully?

[Clair Taberner]

hullo all, i need to sound out a couple of things with u all about amber.....

1st off anyone who is from dd might remember i had problems with her barking at pretty much anything and then it reduced to just other dogs. now she doesn't really bark at other dogs at all apart from the odd bruff in excitment, not the continuous bark bark bark in their faces thankfully. I've noticed over the past month or so she has also gotten her self confidence up, as in she used to carry herself with her tail quite low and was at times skittish to odd noises and always kept real close to me even when off lead, now she walks with quite a jaunty attitude doesn't baulk so much at new noises more tends to investigate happily and is confident enough to go off sniffing trails (u know how when their nose gets glued to the ground following a nice smell trail). however i have noticed on occasion that although she generally mixes with other dogs well that when he comes across a dog that is obviuosly timid of her she will chase it because it does run. she has a very high prey drive (it took a while to train her not to chase bikes, joggers, kids :roll: ) which i think is part of the chasing thing, but i swear i saw her take a nip in a not freindly way when chasing a timid dog this morning. i do wonder though if it could be where she is maturing and testing herself/others or if this is a sign of something more to come to deal with, she is starting to show signs of being quite a bossy character but is totally respectful to myself and our family.
another theory is could she be getting the doggy equivalent to pmt as she is at that age (7 1/2 mnths). another time i've watched her was when round my friends where she has a doggy pal(who's male,but neutered), the next door neighbours jrt is in season and jumped the fence to join in. as i knew that the jrt is in season i felt it would be wise to keep an eagle eye as amber is also an unspayed bitch (to be done after her 1st heat) and for the jrt being little and i was glad i did as by reading ambers body language i was able to grab her quick because she was about to go for the jrt bitch. of that i have no doubt. sorry for rambling, does anyone have any thoughts?

[Renee]

Clair -

If your dog starts to "bully" more timid dogs, I would redirect her behavior. Watch the timid dog - see if they like the chase game or not. Check to see it the timid dog is giving off calming signals to diffuse the situation (lip licking, ground sniffing, shaking, looking away, offering a submisive body posture etc). Also make sure that the "roles" are changing when the dogs are playing and chasing. If your dog is always the "aggressor" in the game, then redirect the behavior. Work on a good recall to give your dog and the other dog a break from the action.

When my dog was younger, she used to be that timid dog (but that's not the case anymore). I would have problems with people who let their dog bully my dog (I don't think they realized it). Their dog would chase my timid dog around the park (it is a good thing that my dog very fast - most dogs can't catch her) and she would usually end up jumping on top of a picnic table to get the other dog to stop chasing her. Then I would call my dog to come to me and we would move away from the more assertive dog. Unfortunately, the other owner would sometimes follow me - they did not understand that my dog did not want to be played with in that manner.

So it's good that you are noticing this now. Your dog is young and impressionable. If you see your dog playing "questionably" with another dog, just recall your dog and reward her heavily. If you are unsure of the situation - recall your dog to you because it never hurts to play it safe (and I bet your recalls will become quite spectacular!).

I don't know what it is...I've noticed that many dogs go through a "bossy" period (with other dogs) from around 7months - 1.5 years or so. Some of them remain bossy as they get older, but a good number tend to mello out after while. I do wonder how much of it is owner recognition of the problem and their decision for intervention - or could it be genetics and early experience? Or can we call it just being a "naughty teenager" - though I tend to think that is a bit of a anthropomorphic fallicy... Does anyone know?

[Clair Taberner]

don't worry renee, i pride myself on trying to be a responsible dog owner. i call her off to me as soon as she is chasing a dog that is not happy with meeting her.i haven't ever noticed any calming signals from these other dogs only that as they run they run hunched and generally scared looking. she does now greet approppriatly but if a dog for whatever is afraid and runs that is where she chases with the behaviour i'm questioning. i then call her to me. not always sucessfully on the first go as she does enjoy the chase. just so the other owner knows i'm not "letting" my dog do this i will always run over to catch her as well. and i always make sure she is told how good she is to come to me, even if not always straight away :oops: but it's improving. otherwise she does have a good recall, people comment on how good she is for a puppy too. although i do have a secret weapon....POPPY :D as an older dog she's better behaved and most times, if amber ignores me first off i call poppy who comes to me and amber then comes to see why i'm calling poppy, so i just slip in a come here amber as she's already en route :)
renee it's interesting that u comment ...I've noticed that many dogs go through a "bossy" period (with other dogs) from around 7months - 1.5 years or so. that was one of my thoughts that perhaps this "teenage "stage is approaching and hormones n all.......

[Marthina McClay]

Hi there,

Teenager here!! 10 month old pit bull. She'a a wonderful dog (I've bragged all over the internet now I'm sure). She's very obedient and as you said VERY respectful of her human family. She has a roomate who is a Chiauau Pug mix, big at about 25lbs. My pit is small at 45 lbs. Anyway, I've notice "quetionable" behaviour but nothing really bad. I've seen the ground sniffing thing in my resident dog but she doesn't really seem bothered. If she is she will usually snap and correct the behavour herself and my pit will usually stop. When I got her a dog trainer told me NOT to interfere with their alpha-omega positioning or they could really fight. They haven't had any fights and haven't even accidently hurt each other. I've had my pit for 2 months now. I also saw my pit play with another pit down the street. Wow, I realized how gentle she really is with my resident dog. What a difference in play style.
Should I correct my pit if my other dog is ground sniffing or getting kind of tired of playing or should I continue to let them work it out? Maybe they are as established as they're going to get and I need to start stepping in with the adolescent attitude emerging. I do see that as well. I think it's possible they do grow out of it though. Just like I did. Ha,ha.

Any suggestions?

Thanks
Marthina

[Marsha]

What are the calming signs dogs give? When do they do this? Is it when they're getting over stimulated? Or is it when they want the other dog/person to calm? Is it an indication that they're unsure of whether the dog or person is playing or getting angry? And if they're showing calming signs and things don't change, does it change to growling and snapping?

Sorry for all the questions. I keep reading about calming signs in dogs but can't find what they are and when dogs use them.

[Renee]

Marthina-

I would never leave it to the dogs to "work it out". Many times people make the mistake of labeling one of their dogs "dominant" or "alpha". In reality their dog might really be a beta dog who is just insecure (we call these dogs alpha-wannabes) and not really confident. True alpha dogs do not pester or bully other dogs. If you are interested in this topic, I would recommend Dr. Patricia McConnell's book - The Other End of the Leash. She discusses the many myths and truths of dominance - its one of my favorite books.

If your think your dog is pestering your other dog, I would redirect the behavior. Maybe call your dog to come to you, ask for a sit and reward heavily or redirect the behavior onto a toy. Remember not to "correct" or punish your dog for being a bully - this is how negative associations are made and fights can occur. Just replace the behavior that you don't like with one that you do. Your dog will soon learn that pestering your roommate's dog isn't as fun as doing other things.

I used a similar tactic when I taught my dog to leave the cats alone. She used to freak out when the cats played in her water dish. I used the "redirect" method and now she simply ignores them.

[Renee]

Marsha-

Dog communicaton can be very complex. In an oversimplifed nutshell, dogs use calming signals as a sign of respect, appeasement and to reduce aggression. Calming signals also need to be read in the context of what is going on. Here is an example: Sniffing the ground can be a calming signal. Dog X chases Dog Y and the chase becomes intense. So Dog Y stops running and starts sniffing the ground to calm things back down. Dog X recognizes that (if he has good dog communication skills - not every dog does) and everything calms down. But, if your dog starts sniffing the ground in the kitchen when you are cooking, is it a calming signal? No - your dog is just looking for something to eat.

Have you read Turid's book on Calming Signals? Brenda Aloff's book Aggression in Dogs also has an excellent section on dog communication systems.

[Missy Stewart]

Just some quick advice from someone with a VERY similar dog!! :wink:

My JRT Sonny is a little bully at heart... but I have found a few easy ways of helping him and the other dogs that he interacts with.

For starters I bought him a LONG lead (about 40 feet) that I clip onto his harness. Sonny's lead is made out of hiking rope. Hiking rope is great b/c it is thin, flat and made out of nylon. This type of rope also does not burn your hands. The lead is useful b/c even though Sonny's recall is good, it helps me keep more control over the situation. He feels like he is running off leash, and I have more control than if he was running free.

Also, find a few "special" toys that your dog loves. NEVER leave these toys lying around for your dog to play with whenever he wants. These need to be YOUR special toys. (I use a flying disk and a rope toy with Sonny). When you take your dog out, stick them inside your jacket, in a pocket, etc. Once you see a weaker dog approaching, pull one of the toys out and use it as a distraction. (I will typically grab onto Sonny's lead, casually walk him over to another area, and play a rigorous game with him).

I can always tell VERY quickly how Sonny is going to interact with an approaching dog. If the dogs stance is slumped with a low head and the tail tucked or curled down, I know NOT to let him approach the dog. This, for me at least, is a good time to pull out his disk and jog to another area of the park. You sound like you have a good grasp on body language. Use what you know, and use fun distractions in times when your dog is likely to bully.

Good luck! I am still working on this also!! It is always hard having the dog that wants to bully!!! And even harder at times are the people who think that you are incompetent for having a dog that is "not as nice as theirs" :roll: Just realize your dogs boundries, which it sounds like you do, and work with it!

[Clair Taberner]

oops

[Clair Taberner]

thanks missy and all else who rsvp'd.i didn't take the long lead but i took a football with me today as amber isn't allowed it generally (she tends to bop poppy, albeit unintentionally, on the head with it) and definitly will be taking it in future :D
quick Q, how do u find tangling with the long lead though missy?

good luck with sonny too.

[Missy Stewart]

I also worried about tangling when his trainer told me to buy one. But to tell you the truth, I have not had any problems with it. If you get the hiking rope, it is slippery, and does not seem to tangle when he runs with it. The rope does take a little practice, but once I caught on, I really thought it helped.

Also, if you think 40 feet would be a bit much for you, get something shorter. They sell it in bulk, so you can buy whatever length you want.

[Clair Taberner]

the other Q would be that i am concerned about the idea as amber already weighs a good 27+k (when last weighed at vets 3wks ago) would i be risking landing on my bum perhaps? and how do other dogs manage when play is appropriate with not tripping/getting caught in the line?

[Missy Stewart]

Now that I do not know for sure. Sonny weighs 14 pounds, so I really do not have to worry about him knocking me down. Also, I do not hold onto the end of it, I just let him drag it. That way, he can run and play as he wants, but if I need to grab onto him, I can.

The main reason that the rope was so crucial for me is because Sonny would actually clasp onto the other dog while letting out hysterical growling noises. He would never puncture another dog, he would just mouth at them while making a lot of noise. This was always very scary for the other dog and its owner. So by having the lead on him, I could quickly pull him out of the situation. The rope is also handy for when you are training/playing with your dog away from others. You are free to train without holding onto a leash, yet you have the control of keeping your dog away from any distractions that might enter the area.

I have never had problems with Sonny getting badly tangled with other dogs while playing with the lead on. Sonny is small though... and maybe that makes a difference. I'm not saying that you will never have to unwarp a few pieces and parts... but overall it is something that can be handled fairly easily.

[Clair Taberner]

as missy suggested i now take a football when i walk amber and as it's working i'll lave it at that(until otherwise at least)
anyways a strange/funny thing she did the other day.....
a puppy approached us when we were playing football and i had to say hello to the little chap of course(football picked up so no cause for falling out over it). amber was a star and didn't bark at it, she nosed hello and then did a wierd thing, as the puppy was sat next to me for fuss, amber lay with her head on my shoe just watching it? i can't figure out why the closest i can get is she was either a) guarding over me making sure he behaved in her eyes, or b) she was debating herding him.

any ideas?anyone

[Clair Taberner]

sorry just bumping it up, my curiosity is bugging:))