Do I need A New Groomer?

[Jody Bidlack]

First of all, I will state that my groomer is a fine human being that cares about dogs and would never be harsh or cruel.

Years ago he groomed my miniature schnauzer (now deceased). Jackie loved him. When we took him to the groomer he was very excited to see the groomer. He loved that man.

Jackie died 6 years ago. Now I have Leo (lhasa apso). Leo hates going to the groomer. He refuses to walk to the back room under his own power and seems very distressed. The groomer works at a vet's office, but not the vet that Leo goes to, so I do not think he associates it with shots, etc. The groomer only takes 3 clients a day and works 3 days a week. He is semi retired and very exclusive. I can only get appointments because we have been customers for so long. Most dogs love this man and he does an excellent job. I have talked to him about Leo's grief, and he has told me that Leo behaves very well for him, but doesn't seem to enjoy it as much as Jackie used to. Normally, he gets dropped off at about 8:00 for his hair cut. He is usually done by 11:00. Only once did it take longer than that.

I have no hair cutting ability and doubt that I could do a decent job styling Leo's hair myself. Leo loves having baths but hates to be brushed. He would sit in the tub all day everyday if I let him.

What should I do? Do I get a new groomer, or just make Leo grin and bear it? I hate to lose this guy as a groomer because he is very kind to the dogs, and nobody (and I mean nobody) can make a dog look as good as that man does. Leo comes out looking like a million bucks, and he only charges me $25. Most groomers around here charge $40, and the dogs don't look that good. I have friends with horror stories about their dogs being injured at their groomers. Leo has never had a nick, scratch or razor burn with this guy.

What should I do?
Jody

[Grace Erick]

Jody,

From what you are saying, it does not appear that you think this groomer is causing your dog any discomfort or hurting your dog in anyway, so maybe it would help if you stayed there for the grooming process so your dog would be more at ease.

I don't use groomers, but could it be the shaver gets too hot or other tools he uses are not sharp enough so it pulls on his skin in some way? Maybe if you stick around for the process, I don't know that you do or don't, I don't see anyone hanging around in Petsmarts grooming area most times with their pet, but it may show you where your dog feels uncomfortable by his reactions to certain grooming things that are done to him. Just a thought!

Bye, Grace

[Karen Jones]

Hi,
It sounds like your groomer is very kind and professional. Maybe it would help if you made the visits a little shorter--perhaps you could have him omit some steps that aren't absolutely necessary? Perhaps if your doggie were there for a shorter amount of time, it wouldn't be so hard for him. Could he be missing you while you are gone?
My other thought was that you could try to help him associate going there with good things--maybe get a special treat that he loves, that he only gets when he is being left at the groomer's and then when he is picked up.
(That price is amazing, by the way! I take Maggie to the groomer's every other month--ours does a great job, but charges almost $60 for the "full treatment." And that's the going rate in our area, it's not like she is overcharging.)
Karen
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/Karen24/Maggie62105.jpg

[Luciann]

Jody

I do not use a groomer myself but i have known dogs that hated begin brushed and groomed, which maybe what is wrong with your baby since he does not seem to like you to brush him either. you might just need to desesnitize him. by brushing and treating him at home so that when he goes to the groomer he is not so unhappy about it. and give him special treats when he has to go to the groomer and you might leave some of the treats with the gentleman to give him when he does well while there.

just some suggestions but i would not change groomers casue this guy sounds like he is definitely a dog person

[TimberWolf]

it's hard to find good groomers. If this one is good and is good with the dogs he works with, don't lose him. Unless there are signs of abuse, I'd say keep him. It's possible your dog had a knot and one time the groomer was brushing him and the knot got pulled and it hurt. Some dogs do not see that as an accident and don't forget the pain. You might want to try working with the brushing at home. Use a flat end of a brush. no briswsels and if he doesn't get too upset then give him a treat. Work him until he associates getting brushed with getting treats. That should help him out a little when going to the groomers. Groomers seem scary to a lot of dogs, no matter how nice the groomer is and how patient they are. It's the same with vets. They mean well and love the pets that come in to the office but because they can inflict pain, dogs see them as evil-doers. Smae with groomers. they have all these tools and most of which are not supposed to inflict any pain but if they make any noise, they are scarey, if they pull hair, they are scary, if they pinch like nail clippers, they are scary, if they blow a lot of wind like hair dryers, they are scary. none of these are meant to inflict pain but nail clippers and brushes can. Shavers, if used corectly shouldn't hurt at all and most of the time, dogs get used to the sound of it but just the sound alone frightens some dogs.

[Melissa Brunoehler]

Hi Jody~

Why don't you stay & watch Leo's next grooming session? It might make you feel better or it might help you decide to look for another groomer.


First of all, I will state that my groomer is a fine human being that cares about dogs and would never be harsh or cruel.

Years ago he groomed my miniature schnauzer (now deceased). Jackie loved him. When we took him to the groomer he was very excited to see the groomer. He loved that man.

Jackie died 6 years ago. Now I have Leo (lhasa apso). Leo hates going to the groomer. He refuses to walk to the back room under his own power and seems very distressed. The groomer works at a vet's office, but not the vet that Leo goes to, so I do not think he associates it with shots, etc. The groomer only takes 3 clients a day and works 3 days a week. He is semi retired and very exclusive. I can only get appointments because we have been customers for so long. Most dogs love this man and he does an excellent job. I have talked to him about Leo's grief, and he has told me that Leo behaves very well for him, but doesn't seem to enjoy it as much as Jackie used to. Normally, he gets dropped off at about 8:00 for his hair cut. He is usually done by 11:00. Only once did it take longer than that.

I have no hair cutting ability and doubt that I could do a decent job styling Leo's hair myself. Leo loves having baths but hates to be brushed. He would sit in the tub all day everyday if I let him.

What should I do? Do I get a new groomer, or just make Leo grin and bear it? I hate to lose this guy as a groomer because he is very kind to the dogs, and nobody (and I mean nobody) can make a dog look as good as that man does. Leo comes out looking like a million bucks, and he only charges me $25. Most groomers around here charge $40, and the dogs don't look that good. I have friends with horror stories about their dogs being injured at their groomers. Leo has never had a nick, scratch or razor burn with this guy.

What should I do?
Jody

[Stefie C]

Leo's distress seems to be with the grooming process itself not with the groomer so I would stay with him. He sounds wonderful btw. Another groomer may not be as patient and kind or as skilled. My 1st thought after reading your post was to do as Lucian Smith suggested and start desesitization exercises with him at home. Observing a grooming session is another great idea. Get some really high value treats that he only gets at the groomers. Perhaps some liver or chicken. My Sandy would endure anything for some chicken or turkey. :mrgreen:

[Jody Bidlack]

Thanks for all of the advice. I will try desensitizing him at home and take treats to the groomer. They will have to be small treats that can be eaten with one gulp. If Leo has something bigger (like a doggie cookie) he cannot be "trusted." High value treats can turn him into a 15 pound mountain lion. He grudgingly trusts his immediate family around high value treats but not others. Yes, Leo is on the NILIF program, and, no, we do not have any small children. When Leo was very young he was visciously attacked by a friend's miniature schnauzer when he walked too close to piece of food. From that moment forward Leo has always acted like treats must be protected. He was only 4 months old, but he learned the lesson well. It took months of NILIF and playing the "trading game" before we could safely handle him near treats.

Whatever treat I bring will have to be small and only of medium value. Leo has a split personality just like Dr Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde. There is Leo the sweet angel dog, and there is his evil twin, Lyle. When he becomes Lyle he can't be trusted. In the last year Lyle has only come out twice. Once when a cat (otherwise his best friend) came near his peanut butter cookie and once when another dog came near a piece of pepperoni. We have worked on this extensively, but I know he will never be perfect. Leo savors his high value treats and sometimes eats them slowly. I would hate to have the groomer get bit over one.

Another solution has possibly presented itself. My neighbor, also a lhasa owner has finally gotten to the top of this groomer's waiting list. He only gets new clients if someone dies or moves away. The dogs may be able to go in together. They are friends, and, perhaps, that will help.
Jody

[Peggy Jensen]

I would suggest sticking around to see just what seems to be the scariest part of the process for him too.
Good groomers are very hard to find. I have only had a dog for three years, tried several groomers at the beginning, finally found one that was okay, but Mickey just got worse and worse about being groomed and she finally told me that she just could not handle him anymore, he would fuss and snap and growl, she was a very no nonsense kind of person and I am sure did not put up with any or his attitude, I also found out later that she crated the dogs while they were waiting and when they were done and if they barked too much she would smack the crate with an empty plastic pop bottle, which I did not like at all.
I have one now that Mickey just loves, we walk past the shop on our nightly walk almost every evening and if she is in we stop just to say hi! He runs up to her and gives her kisses, he even goes to the door and whines when we walk by and they are not open, but she is very patient with him and you can tell she just loves animals.
There is a lot to be said for finding and keeping a good groomer.

[TimberWolf]

As a groomer I don't advise watching. Some dogs are ok with it but it can be very stressful for both the groomer and the dog. I find when dogs see their owners, they tend to want to go home and wiggle a lot more even cry. If somethign is painful like getting a knot out of the fur, the dog will want to go back to mommy or daddy and won't be able to sit still so the groomer can get the knot out with less pain. When clipping the nails, dogs will pull and bite a lot more when their owners are hanging around. They think they will be protected by their mommies and daddies but get frustrated that no one is helping them. It's also hard for owners to watch their babies yelp and whimper when they are scared and the sense of fear from their owners makes doggies worry adn anxious causing them to get even more rebelious and nervous. This makes it difficult for the groomer to do their job well and in a timely fashion. The groomer also gets a little distracted. Most owners are going to want to ask questions about the techniques and pet and coo at their furbabies. Understandably but it makes things really difficult for the groomer. When the dog is alone and is without mommy or daddy, they do learn to calm down. it's not a matter of trying to hide secret torture methods from parents, but more of a way to help calm the dog and let the groom do their job well. Most groomers really do want the best for their clients and their dogs. If the dog seems to be coming back with burns ore a continually inclining fear of a brush or noisey things like razors, you may want to consider changing groomers. Take the cue from your dog, but I would not recommend hanging aroudn the groomer. At least ask the groomer if it's ok with him/her before watching. Some don't mind and are able to handle the pressure and the anxiety of the dogs when being watched.

[Melissa Brunoehler]

I understand your point, however there is no way I would go to a groomer that would not allow me to watch. If I was worried about my dog's well being & my groomer refused to let me watch that would be a major red flag in my eyes. Just as I would not let a vet take my dogs into another room without me. Just because a person is in the dog industry does not mean they understand canine behavior.

As a groomer I don't advise watching. Some dogs are ok with it but it can be very stressful for both the groomer and the dog. I find when dogs see their owners, they tend to want to go home and wiggle a lot more even cry. If somethign is painful like getting a knot out of the fur, the dog will want to go back to mommy or daddy and won't be able to sit still so the groomer can get the knot out with less pain. When clipping the nails, dogs will pull and bite a lot more when their owners are hanging around. They think they will be protected by their mommies and daddies but get frustrated that no one is helping them. It's also hard for owners to watch their babies yelp and whimper when they are scared and the sense of fear from their owners makes doggies worry adn anxious causing them to get even more rebelious and nervous. This makes it difficult for the groomer to do their job well and in a timely fashion. The groomer also gets a little distracted. Most owners are going to want to ask questions about the techniques and pet and coo at their furbabies. Understandably but it makes things really difficult for the groomer. When the dog is alone and is without mommy or daddy, they do learn to calm down. it's not a matter of trying to hide secret torture methods from parents, but more of a way to help calm the dog and let the groom do their job well. Most groomers really do want the best for their clients and their dogs. If the dog seems to be coming back with burns ore a continually inclining fear of a brush or noisey things like razors, you may want to consider changing groomers. Take the cue from your dog, but I would not recommend hanging aroudn the groomer. At least ask the groomer if it's ok with him/her before watching. Some don't mind and are able to handle the pressure and the anxiety of the dogs when being watched.

[TimberWolf]

I understand your point, however there is no way I would go to a groomer that would not allow me to watch. If I was worried about my dog's well being & my groomer refused to let me watch that would be a major red flag in my eyes. Just as I would not let a vet take my dogs into another room without me. Just because a person is in the dog industry does not mean they understand canine behavior.

I do understand your point of view too, but it will look a lot worse than it actually needs to be if your dog is showing off by yelping and squirming when if he were alone, he wouldn't be making that fuss.

Sparky was abused by not only her past owners but by the groomers I had taken her to. I recognized it by the way she was acting. She never did mind grooming that much. She's afraid of the brush but I taught her to accept the brush. Her normal groomer left and I had to look for another. I found one, but had to tell them she may get a little snippy around the nails. They never bothered to write it down. The next time I took her to get groomed she put up the same amount of fuss as she did when I held the pooper scooper for the first time (she was beaten by objects by the last owners so the popper scooper looked like a torture device to her at the time). She thought I was going to beat her with it. There was no way on earth was she going to go back without a fight. Something was wrong. I even got yelled at by the groomers that I didn't tell them she bites. I know I did because I know it's what she has done in the past and I've always warned people about her bad habits. I then took her somewhere else and she never put up a fuss like that again. I don't know what those groomers did to her, but I took my cue from Sparky. I couldn't bathe her in my house at the time because I didn't have good pipes. They clogged too easily and I wasn't going to pay for a plumber every time I wanted to bathe her so I had to take her to someone else. I felt so bad for her, but even now, if I try to watch she gets really wiggly and I can tell it upsets the groomers. As long as she seems happy to see the groomer or doesn't put up a fuss like before, I know I can trust the groomer. Besides I always ask questions about how she acted. If she gave up too much trouble I don't have to ask if anything went wrong.

I know you want to protect your baby from some of the bad groomers out there. None of us should claim to be a dog behaviourist (I know I never did claim that), but she are trained to be gentle and try different humaine methods of calming our furry clients down. None of us are supposed to force anything on the dog beyond holding him still to clip/shave hair or nails. We also aren't clueless as to why dogs act the way they do. We know this is scary for them which is why a groomer won't yell at them. besides that being the wrong way of doing anything, it just isn't a productive way if we want the dogs to learn we are not aiming to hurt them. If they get too anxious, we just put them back in their cages til they calm down. if a groomer has the time, most of us will even try to play and give treats to the scared pooch. If nothing works, a phone call is made to the owner to come pick up their dog and try again later. One way to feel more comfortable about the groomer you work with is ask questions. Ask A LOT of questions of different scenarios and how they bathe the dogs and clip thier nails and hair. What do they do if the dog bites, maybe if you get the chance watch how other dogs approach the groomer. Do they seem comfortable and happy to see the groomer? Are they scared to death of approaching the building even?

One groomer I worked with abused the dogs. I left of course and warned the boss about his behaviour. I found out where he last worked and the owner there said she didn't know why the dogs seemed so scared of coming into the place. I told her what the groomer did and she was appauled that she didn't know and that it was happening right under her nose. Had she known she'd have reported him. The cue was from the dogs. I do hope you find a groomer you can trust enough to leave the dogs alone. Either way, it is so sad to know there are bad peopel out there in charge of our furbabies it does give those with good intentions a bad name.

[Amber]

When I volunteered at the animal shelter I adopted Sally at (we also boarded and groomed), we had some dogs that acted out WAY more if their owners were standing in the room...or even standing outside looking in the window! We also had some dogs that would just stand there and let us do whatever we had to do. It doesn't neccessarily mean a "red flag", it just means that the groomer may be looking out for all parties involved. The dog may try to jump off the grooming table or wiggle too much and get cut, etc. Anne already hit on the owners being nervous and asking too many questions. The groomer may get too distracted and frustrated, etc.

If you like the groomer and you aren't doubting how he does his job, then I would keep him as your groomer. While spending a year at the shelter helping groom and doing other various jobs, I noticed that certain breeds just don't like being groomed. Lhasa Apsas, Shih Tzus, Poodles, among a few other breeds gave us the hardest time.

[TimberWolf]

by the way about my long drawn out post above. I don't want anyone thinking I'm insisting anyone has to do as I say but I just strongly advise what I'm suggesting. Either way, it is still your choice as to what is the best way to go about communicating with a dog groomer and whether or not you feel the need to watch. :)

[Lesly Stevens]

Keep the groomer - he's worth his weight in gold. Pay attention to YOUR emotions when you drop your dog off - if you're anxious about Leo's resistance to being left there, Leo is picking up on it, reinforcing Leo's negative feeling about being left there. Relax, and Leo will get over it.

My rescue, Bo, would cry when I left him at the groomer's. I didn't fuss over him, just handed him over, told him I'd be back later, and left. Bo was fine after I walked out the door. After a couple of months, he greeted the groomer with body wiggles and happy-to-see-you kisses.

Lesly, Maddy, & Bo

[Gaddy Mep]

I would keep him also. Some dogs simply do not like being groomed.

[Melissa Brunoehler]

Hi Anne~

Yes, there are wonderful groomers out there. But if I was worried about my dogs well being while at the groomer I would work something out with the groomer so that I could see what was going on. Whether it was looking from another room so that my dog did not know I was there or at the very least watching someone else's dog get groomed.
I'm sure in some cases the owner being present does make the dog more nervous, as the dog will pick up on the owner's stress, however it can't be assumed that the dog will automatically act worse because the owner is there.

I don't know what those groomers did to her, but I took my cue from Sparky.

Exactly, you don't know what the groomers did to her, that's the point I'm trying to make. If you're not there to watch, you don't know.

I couldn't bathe her in my house at the time because I didn't have good pipes. They clogged too easily and I wasn't going to pay for a plumber every time I wanted to bathe her so I had to take her to someone else. I felt so bad for her, but even now, if I try to watch she gets really wiggly and I can tell it upsets the groomers. As long as she seems happy to see the groomer or doesn't put up a fuss like before, I know I can trust the groomer. Besides I always ask questions about how she acted. If she gave up too much trouble I don't have to ask if anything went wrong.

I know you want to protect your baby from some of the bad groomers out there. None of us should claim to be a dog behaviourist (I know I never did claim that), but she are trained to be gentle and try different humaine methods of calming our furry clients down. None of us are supposed to force anything on the dog beyond holding him still to clip/shave hair or nails. We also aren't clueless as to why dogs act the way they do. We know this is scary for them which is why a groomer won't yell at them. I have seen groomers yelling & mistreating dogs at my local petstore. I don't want this to sound like I have something against groomers, I don't. My one & only point is I want to know how people are treating my dogs.

besides that being the wrong way of doing anything, it just isn't a productive way if we want the dogs to learn we are not aiming to hurt them. If they get too anxious, we just put them back in their cages til they calm down. if a groomer has the time, most of us will even try to play and give treats to the scared pooch. If nothing works, a phone call is made to the owner to come pick up their dog and try again later. One way to feel more comfortable about the groomer you work with is ask questions. Ask A LOT of questions of different scenarios and how they bathe the dogs and clip thier nails and hair. What do they do if the dog bites, maybe if you get the chance watch how other dogs approach the groomer. Do they seem comfortable and happy to see the groomer? Are they scared to death of approaching the building even?

One groomer I worked with abused the dogs.
That is why I think it is so important to watch what is going o!

I left of course and warned the boss about his behaviour. I found out where he last worked and the owner there said she didn't know why the dogs seemed so scared of coming into the place. I told her what the groomer did and she was appauled that she didn't know and that it was happening right under her nose. Had she known she'd have reported him. The cue was from the dogs. I do hope you find a groomer you can trust enough to leave the dogs alone. Either way, it is so sad to know there are bad peopel out there in charge of our furbabies it does give those with good intentions a bad name
Very true!