Now I've got a problem

[Summer Magic]

Now I have a problem to talk about. Is there a forum for training Mothers????? All through the winter I have been training Magic using +R. Mom has been in the back ground and I've tried to include her in all I'm doing with Magic but mom told me just the other day that she doesn't believe in or understand the +R training method. She says that I have Magic so spoiled that she won't listen to anyone else. Magic has been just a lovely little girl this summer and will follow commands from me without prompting. However Mom refuses to learn how to use the +R training method. She believes all dogs belong in the back yard chained to a tree and they are to follow instructions because they are told to do so with no training required only correction with a rolled up newspaper (YIKES.) She sees the reward method as spoiling the animal and coddling the bad behavior. I keep trying to explain to her that the reward is given for reinforcement of good behavior not coddling the bad behavior. She doesn’t seem to want to get the terms right either, like when Magic jumps on the bed I say “off” mom says “get down” in a long elaborate sentence. Magic understands off and will then jump off the bed. When mom says get down Magic lays down…..DUH……th en mom gets angry with her for not doing what she’s told. I’ve gone over these simple terms a hundred times with her and they are simple: off, down, sit, stay, come, leave it. That’s the extent of it. Mom says she’s too old to learn the perfect words to help train the “stupid” dog. Well this dog isn’t stupid. Mom tries to "explain" to the dog what she wants her to do “Now Magic you’re not supposed to be on the bed now get down please” AAAARRRRRGGGGH The poor dog just sits there and looks at her. When I say mom why don’t you just tell her “off” she says oh I cant remember all that stuff! I want them to be comfortable with each other and am afraid Magic may digress in her behavior if mom digs in her heels and won’t cooperate with the training method I’ve chosen. What can I do?????

[Stefie C]

Judy, I understand your frustration. I have the same problem with my husband. They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks but we all know that isn't true. However, I do believe it is darn near impossible to teach an old HUMAN new tricks! :confused:

Even though my DH has seen how well +R works and he often brags about how wonderfully Sandy behaves, if she makes even one mistep that he find annoying he'll start "lecturing" me about getting a choke chain and teaching her whose boss. :rolleyes: It drives me crazy!

A while back, (I may have posted about this before) he let Sandy out in the yard off leash to go potty. This was before her recall was as reliable as it is now. The yard is fenced in so no problem there but I always take her to potty on the leash. Off leash she thinks is play time so she did her business and then began running around and playing. He's yelling at her to "come". 1st of all we (my son & I) don't "come", we use "here". And 2nd we don't use here to "stop the fun", we use "go inside". Anyway, he comes in the house grumbling about how the darn dog won't listen to a word he says and I better get a choke chain, blah, blah, blah, blah. I just tuned him out & went to the door and yelled for her and she comes charging at me full speed. I did have a treat in my hand. ;) DH didn't know that but Sandy did. :D When he realized why she came in so enthusiastically he told me that wasn't fair and I was spoiling her and so forth. So I asked him to think about it. Which was smarter, him yelling & fussing at her and getting no results or me giving her a tiny piece of hotdog to get her to happily do exactly what I want her to do? After he calmed down, he admitted that the hotdog worked great and for the most part Sandy behaves better than any dog he's ever trained. I thought, Yipee!, I've finally converted him. But alas, no, he just won't put the effort into reading and learning about +R. Then he gets frustrated when she doesn't "mind him" like she does my son & I. I don't know what the answer is, but I'm open to suggestions too.

[Kendall Aliza]

Judy if its makes you feel any better... I came home about a week ago to find my mother feeding my dog the remaining half of her ice cream sundae! I about died when i walked through the door!

[Jody Hayes]

I have family that thinks I should either kick my Beagle in the chest or step on his feet when he jumps up!! Sorry folks...you may no longer come into my home. This is my dogs home also. If someone doesn't like it they can leave.

[Daniela Jantzen]

Judy,

instead of verbal commands, why not implement hand signals for the most important cues you use in your daily life? This way you could build a bridge between your's and your mom's verbal cues. NO matter what you say, the hand signal is the same and the dog will easily adjust to other verbal cues afterwards as well....
(For the recall when the dog is out of sight, use a whistle)

Other than that, I strongly recommend two things in daily life:
1. get a HUGE supply of chocolate for the nerves. Can help tremendously when dealing with the significant other/familiy members/friends in reference to the "perfect" method of dog training.
2 Learn from your dog and develop selective hearing. Believe me, it works and can make life so much easier.... ;)
Danny

[Renee]

Judy-

As much as you might want your mom to understand, she might not...particularly if she is "set in her ways". If she doesn't want to learn, then I would not let her be a part of Magic's training.

I really don't understand people that want to use aversives on dogs and think that dogs should do what there told because they are told (especially when the dog has no cognitive capability of understanding what they are being instructed to do). If these same people were treated this way by their friends or significant others, they would leave that relationship because it would not be rewarding. Unfortunately dogs don't have that choice. Humans and dogs need to find things rewarding in life.

Here are some questions that might be helpful....How well would your mother enjoy her life if she were never rewarded for any of her actions? How would you mother like it if someone was constantly hitting her with a newspaper because she couldn't take instructions in Japanese (I'm assuming she doesn't speak Japanese...)? Would that be fair? How would she like to be chained up outside with nothing to do all day? What is the point of having a dog if you are going to chain it up outside and deprive it of human contact?

Judy, I feel for you....my father is the same way (except way more extreme). He trained all his dogs with the "side of the boot" - and then some! He doesn't understand all the training I do with my sensitive dog. He always tells stories about how well trained all his dogs were - especially his GSD. What he doesn't talk about is how his GSD (who, by the way, was titled in obedience) ripped the cheek off of a 3 year child back in the the early 70's. The entire cheek was hanging by a thread. My father was very lucky that he was not sued. If that same incident were to happen now, my father would be in very serious trouble and one of the things that would come up in court would be the methods by which he trained the GSD and his obvious lack of management skills. Needless to say, when my parents visit, I don't let them interact with my dog on a training level - petting only. I don't talk about dog training with my dad.

[Melissa Brunoehler]

Hi Judy~

I agree with Renee, I think I would ask your Mom not to interact with Magic
if she is not going to follow the "rules". If she wants/needs Magic to move or do something she should go get you so you can ask Magic to Move.
Remember +R works with people too, so if your Mom or other family memebers follows your request remember to reward! The reward can be nice words or a smile from you, chocolate, alone time- whatever the person will view as a reward.

Good Luck!



[QUOTE=Renee]Judy-

As much as you might want your mom to understand, she might not...particularly if she is "set in her ways". If she doesn't want to learn, then I would not let her be a part of Magic's training.

[Debbie Chastain]

Boy oh boy,

I really feel for you, too. Dogs are easy...people are hard!!!

If your mom can't follow the struture you are trying to provide for your dog, she is not respecting you. Nor is she putting your dog's best interest's before her own thoughts and/or needs.

Be carful to express you feelings with your mom, away from your pup, so your dog doesn't associate any intense conversations with your mom in general. You can put your foot down with people, without anger, too. Simply say, in a fact-of-the-matter voice, with a smile on your face, "I'm doing what I feel is in the best interest of my dog. If you can't support me in doing this, please don't interact with her. Since my dog can't make decisions on her own, and is easily confused when given conflicting signals from different people, I have to speak for her and do what I think is best."

Your dog...your rules. Period. Good luck!

[Suni Brown]

I think I am gonna cry! I have been sooooo frustrated the last few weeks. My fiance has his own opinions on puppy training that he has instilled into my step son. If Gwen jumps on the couch, push her down, if she is trying to chew on her, scream and yell "no bite, no bite".....I on the other hand am trying to use +R. When gwen jumps on me, I turn my back. She immedietly stops. When she jumps on the couch by me, I ignore her. In less than 5 seconds, she is on the floor playing and get's rewarded for her good behavior. When it is just her and I, she is wonderful. When we are all at home, she is bouncing off the wall, jumping, nipping. I have tried over and over and over and over and over (see why I am frustrated) to get them to use my methods. No, not Mr. "I've had 3 dogs in my life".....If he is sooooo great with training dogs, why does she never listen to him?? Huh???.....So, I have no answers for the original question, but I do feel better that I am not alone. Darn humans....can't live with them....can't convince them to use +R....

[Luciann]

i guess i am in a good situation, i live alone and no one can have interaction with my dogs other than me or on my rules

i feel for you since i have had the same experience raising my step kids when i was married.

i would rather deal with animals than human 90% of the time

[Amber]

I am lucky in the fact that my mother knows nothing about dogs and she knows it, so she will do anything I tell her to do because she knows I'm on this forum ALL THE TIME (lol) and she knows how much I read about dog behavior and +R training.

I agree with what several people have said on here...politely tell your mother to not interact with Magic if she cannot do so on your terms.

[Debbie Chastain]

The sad part of what people don't understand, is for you to apply the methods you've learned and stick to +R, they need to help you...not hinder you! All of the attention which you should be devoting to your dog is being put under pressure. I think I've mentioned this in another thread, but this reminds me of people's advice when you're raising kids, too. It's hard to be a leader to your dog when you are being put on the defense right in front of them.

Is there a +R group in your area which you could join for some good structure and positive support? Long walks away from the rest of the family would probably help release some tension for both you and your buddy. The exercise is always good, too! A good morning walk can set the tone for a great day. If other family members want to come along...it's time to implement the NILIF, "people version"! If they want to come, fine, but remember "...your dog, your rules!".