Whining (again)

[Rebekah Hartman]

We are still dealing with a major whining issue here and my hubby has about had it with Samson. It's getting to the point where he wants to be anywhere but home. We've decided to (hard core) try to extinguish the behavior by ignoring it completely. Honestly, I don't think we've been not ignoring it, but we're going to really make a concerted effort not to even give a "Quiet" command when whining occurs. First question, does anyone else have experience with extinguishing behaviors? I know that we need to expect an "extinction burst", but any other tips?

Part of the problem we also have is that Samson uses whining to communicate when he needs something as well. If he's downstairs in his play yard in the morning (where he has slept); he'll whine to let us know he needs to go out. My husband ignored his whining this AM (because he whines incessantly, so he assumed he was just whining) and Samson pooped all over the place. I'm not sure how to balance ignoring with getting him out if he needs to go. He'll usually just hold it, but apparently today was an emergency.

Next question, any play ideas? He needs lots of exercise, but we live in FL and he only lasts for about 5 minutes outside. We play indoors a bit, but he can't really "get the bugs out" indoors. I want to find more activities that provide mental stimulation (he'll often eat out of a Buster cube or Kong, but that only lasts for so long). We were hiding peanuts around his play yard which kept him entertained, but he ended up with loose stools and I think they may be the culprit....

[Renee]

Hi Rebekah,

Wisconsin is a tad bit cooler than Florida, but my dog also gets overheated in about 5 minutes - she is a black dog, so she really heats up quickly. Our dog has a high exercise requirement - she needs about 1.25 - 1.5 hours of off leash exercise per day to be a calm dog (I was orignially told that she was a lab-chow mix, but now we have reason to believe that she is a lab-cattledog mix). I take her to the dog park that has a nice swimming area and we play fetch in the water. I have a $10 kiddy pool that I can set up in the back yard and a sprinkler also.

I have to take off for a BBQ, but I have a few more comments about the barking....I'll post later.

[Rebekah Hartman]

I bought a kiddie pool (because he loves baths), but he is not interested in it at all. I may try putting some toys in it to see if that helps. I've even thought about "borrowing" other dogs to see if they'd play together, but I have to borrow a yard too because ours isn't fenced yet.

[Renee]

Rebekah-

How does your dog do around the water hose? Could you possibly spray him down every 10 minutes or so.

We are still dealing with a major whining issue here and my hubby has about had it with Samson. It's getting to the point where he wants to be anywhere but home.

I know how this feels..... My dog is extremely vocal and barky. My husband dislikes all the barking and often complains about it. I've had to have a frank discussion with him and explain to him why the dog is barking and how to handle it. I've also had to point out to him how he has unknowinly aided in her barking by doing the wrong things. Even after I've explained all of this to him, I still catch him doing things that unravel my training with our girl. Oh well, what can I do? Are you Samson's primary trainer or does your husband help out?


We've decided to (hard core) try to extinguish the behavior by ignoring it completely. Honestly, I don't think we've been not ignoring it, but we're going to really make a concerted effort not to even give a "Quiet" command when whining occurs. First question, does anyone else have experience with extinguishing behaviors? I know that we need to expect an "extinction burst", but any other tips?

We need to look at all the reasons why Samson is vocalizing. Is it just because he has had a strong reinforcement history for whining to communicate to you and your husband. Could any of it be stress related? My dog barks for many reasons many of which are stress related, but some of which are for attention seeking purposes.

If you think he is whining if for attention, then ignore it. But remember to heavily reinforce the quiet times afterward. Pepper used to incessantly bark at me (at certain times) if I did not throw her tennis ball for her. She would whip herself up into a frenzy! I worked on a lot of impulse control exercises with her and I was very careful to withdraw all my attention from her if she barked. I was very dramatic about it...I threw the chuck it stick(w/ball) on the ground, turned by back, crossed my arms and wouldn't even look in her direction. If she were in too much of a frenzy, I had to do other things besides ignore her (I used a lot of down stays for to calm her so she could get control over her emotions - sometimes I just had to put the tennis ball away). At first I expected 5 seconds of silence before I threw the ball....I gradually expected more silence as her training progressed.

A few times I accidentally threw the ball when she was barking - because I was chatting with a friend and not paying attention. With Pepper, it only takes 1-2 tosses while she is barking to keep that behavior alive and healthy. After that, I really had to make sure that I didn't make mistakes like that. There was also a time when I thought that we were there, then the extinction burst came.....it really got me down. After all the training I had done, it seemed like she was barking even more. Months later, we are there! Now if Pepper gets excited and wants her ball, she will sometimes open her mouth, not bark, then close her mouth and wait for me to throw the ball. It is as if she is almost thinking out loud "I'm gonna bark, wait...I'm not going to bark because I'll get my ball..."

As far as whining to go outside, could you change the cue? Just make sure it is something that you and your husband find acceptable for years to come. Just remember that this is going to take a while. Samson has been taught to whine to communicate to you....it will take some time and dedication to change this.

Hang in there....having a vocal dog can be trying.

[Rebekah Hartman]

How does your dog do around the water hose? Could you possibly spray him down every 10 minutes or so. I've gotten him used to it (more or less) and it has a "mist" spray, but he would rather I didn't spray him.

Are you Samson's primary trainer or does your husband help out? My husband does help out, but I have to find the time to train him to do what we're working on.... He's awesome at working Samson when he knows what to do, though. He doesn't use the clicker - he's tried it, but doesn't feel like he can get the timing right.

We need to look at all the reasons why Samson is vocalizing. Is it just because he has had a strong reinforcement history for whining to communicate to you and your husband. Could any of it be stress related? I am pretty well convinced that he does it for attention. I think it goes back to all the potty issues we've had since we had to make sure he got outside. We've always waited for him to quiet before letting him out, but I think any attention at all has reinforced it.

As far as whining to go outside, could you change the cue? I'm working on coming up with another option. I don't think a bell would work because he'll probably chew it up when he's playing if it's accessible (which it would obviously have to be). I think that would help us a lot, though.

I've worked out a new schedule so that walks and training are built into the day, every day and I think that will help him settle down during the times when it isn't time for a walk or play. I'm going to take him for a 30-minute walk/run in the morning and then another one in the afternoon when I get home. On the mornings when I leave later, we'll fit in some training after our walk and we'll do training every day after the afternoon walk.

The whining is getting ignored completely - he has to settle into a down or a sit and be quiet for several seconds (basically give up on the whining) before we'll even acknowledge him and then he gets praised or gets to go outside, etc. So far, he still whines quite a bit but he does give up eventually and then we can give him attention. I think it takes some of the burden off of me because since I'm not supposed to respond, I just don't get as bent out of shape about it. Don't get me wrong - it's still incredibly annoying, but I just block it out as much as I can.

Thanks so much for your encouragement!

[Renee]

R-

Tha's great that your husband is helping out. For some reason there are way more female trainers than male trainers out there. Or when I attend seminars, the speaker is always making some joke about the 3 token males that showed up in the audience. It's really great that your husband is on board.

I think that I have the opposite problem of your husband...I have a harder time using a verbal to reward mark behavior than using a clicker to reward mark. That, and I have a hard time using the same tone of voice to keep the verbal reward mark consistant...

Good luck to you guys,

[Rebekah Hartman]

My husband is great at pretty much everything he puts his mind to, so for my birthday I asked for doggie classes and for him to come with us. He really worked him a lot. We've both been slacking a bit lately (not good), but he'll still work him if I show him what to do - not with the same intensity he did before, but he's helpful when I need him to be.

I think we may be making some headway with the whining, too. It's still probably a lot more frequent than most people would tolerate, but it is lessening as he figures out that he basically ceases to exist when he starts to whine. The exercising is helping both of us a lot - I actually look forward to it because it's part of the schedule now, not just something I'm trying to "fit in". I think we're even going to kidnap some of the neighbor dogs and walk them, too - just to try something different.