Dog food

[Jack Goodwin]

Has anyone tried a dog food called Bil-Jac? I got a free sample and my parents dog loves it. Just wondering if it is good for them. I am waiting for a new puppy so I gave the sample to my parents. I will be looking for a good food for my puppy when she arrives.
Thanks Jack

[Dave Kersh]

Are you talking about the dry BilJac or the frozen?
AFAIK, the dry is OK but nothing to get excited about. The frozen makes excellent training treats, but I wouldn't feed my dog exclusively on BilJac frozen.
I was on the BilJac site the other day, and saw no mention of their frozen dog food. Just about every agility person I know uses it to train. Wierd...

[Maria Juliano]

Has anyone tried a dog food called Bil-Jac? I got a free sample and my parents dog loves it. Just wondering if it is good for them. I am waiting for a new puppy so I gave the sample to my parents. I will be looking for a good food for my puppy when she arrives.
Thanks Jack

Bil Jac was the original food my puppies were fed by their breeder. It's one of the worst food on the market, loaded with garbage!! Yuck! Rated: Commercial , but it's not cheap!!

If you are looking for a Super Premium food, go to: www.naturapet.com (http://www.naturapet.com) to do a food comparison.

I feed my two pups: Innova kibble, can and EVO food, all made by the Natura Co. All human grade ingredients. I think a small bag cost about a $1.00-2.00 more than Bil Jac. My dogs have the best coat, skin, great smelling breath, and solid stools. Best food in my opinion. :twocents:

Good luck with your new puppy, what breed is it?

[Grace Erick]

Hi Jack,

What some people do is determine what they want to spend on dog food, like a yearly allowance, then they find a food within that range. Maybe some people may spend more if they find the food they are looking at is just a little too substandard. If a person has a big dog or if a person has many dogs, it can cost a person a lot of money to buy really premium foods like Innova or Evo or Solid Gold which are not sold in major stores. You have to use the sites store locator to find where they can be bought and those stores tend to give out samples.

I don't really care for the Bil-Jac. The puppy food is preserved with what is considered to be a cancerous preservative called BHA. Both adult and puppy foods have a lot of by products which can be beaks, feet, intestines etc., so it's not considered to have high quality ingredients. It has beet pulp pretty high on the list. Items that are closer to the beginning of the list are what is in the food the most. Beet pulp is just filler and corn is listed which is not bad, but it would be better if it was ground so it would be in a more digestible form.

I don't know quite where to put this on the list of poor, medium to really premium foods. To me it's less than medium quality. Will it kill your dog or will your dog not live a long life on it, sure they will most likely be okay, but it's not good food and starting off a puppy's life with a carcinogen can't be good as growing babies or dogs are more effected by carcinogens than adults.

**** Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra hard dog food states it's for all life stages and can be found in Petsmart or Petco and is a really good food. This is the link to the food and the ingredients:

http://www.naturalbalancein c.com/products/UltDog.html

Someone had started a list of different quality foods, but I have no idea what thread the list is on now. Another good one that is reasonably priced is Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul which you would have to do a search to find the store that carries it.

Grocery store foods are pretty bad. I think most have either or coloring, cancerous preservatives, by products, poor quality grains and too much grain as opposed to animal protein and other poor quality products plus filler. You want to see an animal protein listed first and possible second or third again on the list.

Does anyone know where the heck that list is where someone made 3 separate lists of the different quality dog foods????

So, what kind of puppy are you getting Jack?

Bye, Grace

[Maria Juliano]

Are you talking about the dry BilJac or the frozen?
AFAIK, the dry is OK but nothing to get excited about. The frozen makes excellent training treats, but I wouldn't feed my dog exclusively on BilJac frozen.
I was on the BilJac site the other day, and saw no mention of their frozen dog food. Just about every agility person I know uses it to train. Wierd...

All foods made by Bil Jac have the same garbage for ingredients. Dogs like it because it includes mollasses ( Yuck! ) and so much preservatives, additives, chemicals, etc.

Weird indeed! A lot of the trainers and breeders get" free" sample/food of Bil Jac, that's why the use it! That's how the Co. tries to endorse their product. Just like some Vets sell Eukanuba and other poor quality food.:angry: It's all about the "mula."

There are better treats out there for "reward" such as frozen 100% liver or 100% chicken strips/jerky. My dogs get the chicken and they love it!

[Dave Kersh]

A lot of the trainers and breeders get" free" sample/food of Bil Jac, that's why the use it!
We use it because it sticks to the target, it's convenient and it's inexpensive. I know many people who do USDAA, NADAC and AKC agility. None of them get anything free from anyone. We're the trainers and nobody sends us samples. BilJac is perfect for this particular purpose and dog's are highly motivated by it.
All foods made by Bil Jac have the same garbage for ingredients. Dogs like it because it includes mollasses ( Yuck! ) and so much preservatives, additives, chemicals, etc.
As I said before, I wouldn't feed my dog exclusively on BilJac frozen or any other BilJac product, my dog eats California Natural. Why do I find myself defending what I feed my dog? Why should anyone have to defend what they feed their dog? There are many, many dogs out there who have lived long, happy lives on Kibbles 'n Bits. Do I think it's crap? Yes! Would I feed it to my dog? No!
I don't think those that feed it need to be made to feel like their mistreating thier dog, though.
There are better treats out there for "reward" such as frozen 100% liver or 100% chicken strips/jerky.
Now we can only give expensive treats? Treats are about 1% of my dog's diet. I don't think a little BilJac is going to make her life any shorter.
I'm feeling a bit out of place here...

[Susan Baxter]

Dave,
Don't feel out of place. I feed my dogs Authority which some on this site say is really bad. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I know my dogs like it and they don't like Blue Buffalo which is made with human grade ingredients.

I had a dachsund as a kid and a cockapoo as an adult, both of whom lived to be 17 years old on plain old Purina Dog Chow kibble and Milk Bone dog biscuits for treats. The dachsund even got a slice of bacon each day from my dad. There were no "premium" or "super premium" foods then and both dogs lived long lives and never lost a tooth or had cancer. On the other hand I had a terrier mix that lived on Nutro's Natural Choice most of her life. She lost several teeth despite repeated cleanings and she died of cancer at 12. Now, before everyone gets angry, I do understand that the food had likely nothing to do with any of it and genetics had everything to do with it but that's exactly my point. We feed our dogs the healthiest food that we can afford and more importantly that they will eat and give them all the love and care we can and pray we get to spend many happy years with them.

Susan

[Grace Erick]

Hi Dave,

Jack did ask for opinions on Bil-Jac so he got them. No one asked what he fed his dog which he does not have one yet, and then slam him for it.

Some people who feed the Purina food will laugh at others who feed more expensive foods since their dogs led a long life so far. I personally like the idea of my dog eating food that has good ingredients not just for her health and to keep a healthy immune system, but I don't like the idea of her eating food that is....well....disgus ting with some of it's ingredients. I just can't give her what does not really seem edible even though it will still sustain her to lead (maybe) a long life.

Also, I don't know what Purina's ingredients were years ago. Some older folks have said some big name brands names have gone downhill over the years with their ingredients and ingredients may change when companies are bought and sold, so maybe Purina was good years ago???

I don't think anyone here has to explain what they feed their dog and why they feed their dog what they do, but if someone asks for an opinion on a particular dog food, they are entitled to get an answer from someone here who can state how they feel and why.

Bye, Grace

[Jack Goodwin]

Thanks everyone for the replys. Just met with the breeder today and hopefully there are some buns in the oven. I will keep looking at dog food till I find what I think is right. My last puppy was 17 yrs ago. so it is like learning over again.
Thanks Jack

[Maria Juliano]

We use it because it sticks to the target, it's convenient and it's inexpensive. I know many people who do USDAA, NADAC and AKC agility. None of them get anything free from anyone. We're the trainers and nobody sends us samples. BilJac is perfect for this particular purpose and dog's are highly motivated by it.

As I said before, I wouldn't feed my dog exclusively on BilJac frozen or any other BilJac product, my dog eats California Natural. Why do I find myself defending what I feed my dog? Why should anyone have to defend what they feed their dog? There are many, many dogs out there who have lived long, happy lives on Kibbles 'n Bits. Do I think it's crap? Yes! Would I feed it to my dog? No!
I don't think those that feed it need to be made to feel like their mistreating thier dog, though.

Now we can only give expensive treats? Treats are about 1% of my dog's diet. I don't think a little BilJac is going to make her life any shorter.
I'm feeling a bit out of place here...

You gave your opinion on Bil Jac and I gave mine based on what I know about the food.

Why do I find myself defending what I feed my dog? Why should anyone have to defend what they feed their dog?

There is no need to defend what you feed your dog, but if you post a question or an opinion on a dog food, you are going to get an answer...it may not be what you would like to hear.

Now we can only give expensive treats?

Again, you don't have to follow what I suggested...it was my opinion to feed a better treat based on what you said on your original post.

I'm feeling a bit out of place here...

Sorry you feel that way.

[Grace Erick]

Hi Maria,

It was actually Jack that wanted to know about foods. I don't know why Dave felt on the defensive, but I hate for him to feel that way. This is such a friendly positive group. I hate to see him post that he is feels out of place here. Other sites really bash people for opposing opinions and that doesn't happen here which is why it's a nice group.

Bye, Grace

[Dave Kersh]

It's not what was said; it's the way it was said.
It just seems as if any time someone asks about a food that's not "super premium", it's automatically labeled as crap.
If one thinks a food is not up to their standards, so be it. That doesn't make it crap. One may not like the ingredients in a food. That doesn't make it crap. Say you don't like the ingredients, say you wouldn't feed it to your dog; don't automatically call it crap and make someone feel stupid for even suggesting that they might feed it to their dog.
There seems to be a pervasive attitude here that one should only feed human grade, super-premium food and if one doesn't, he is somehow harming his pet. Nobody's ever actually said it, but it's implied again and again.
There's also an underlying mistrust of vets or anybody else who does business with "big dog food". There seems to be a feeling that if vets or trainers feed anything other than super-premium food, they're in the pocket of the corporations. Like most conspiracy theories, I believe this to be a mistaken belief.
That's why I feel out of place. I don't get that feeling at idog...

[Maria Juliano]

It's not what was said; it's the way it was said.
It just seems as if any time someone asks about a food that's not "super premium", it's automatically labeled as crap.
If one thinks a food is not up to their standards, so be it. That doesn't make it crap. One may not like the ingredients in a food. That doesn't make it crap. Say you don't like the ingredients, say you wouldn't feed it to your dog; don't automatically call it crap and make someone feel stupid for even suggesting that they might feed it to their dog.
There seems to be a pervasive attitude here that one should only feed human grade, super-premium food and if one doesn't, he is somehow harming his pet. Nobody's ever actually said it, but it's implied again and again.
There's also an underlying mistrust of vets or anybody else who does business with "big dog food". There seems to be a feeling that if vets or trainers feed anything other than super-premium food, they're in the pocket of the corporations. Like most conspiracy theories, I believe this to be a mistaken belief.
That's why I feel out of place. I don't get that feeling at idog...



It's not what was said; it's the way it was said.

Again, you expressed your opinion on Bil Jac and I gave mine...

Why are you taking my comments so personal? It's not about you Dave, it's about the quality of a specific dog food/treat. We are all here to become better educated on how to best care for our beloved dogs, which includes Canine Nutrition.

One may not like the ingredients in a food. That doesn't make it crap.

If someone comes into this forum asking for an honest opinion on how people feel about the ingredients of a specific dog food, members will give their opinion based on their experience with that brand...

There seems to be a pervasive attitude here that one should only feed human grade, super-premium food and if one doesn't, he is somehow harming his pet. Nobody's ever actually said it, but it's implied again and again.


There is no pervasive attitude in here...No one in DB has an ounce of malice intention. We are all here because we want to learn and help each other on a variety of dog topics/issues. There are several members in here, who feed their dogs Nutro because it's what they can afford. No one has felt stupid about it. People have the right to feed what they feel it's best for their dogs, at the same time they know what the quality of the food is... that's being responsible!


There's also an underlying mistrust of vets or anybody else who does business with "big dog food". There seems to be a feeling that if vets or trainers feed anything other than super-premium food, they're in the pocket of the corporations.


I have my opinions on why some vets sell the the BIG name dog foods...and yes, I feel they get some sort of commission for selling it. Vets should be better educated about Canine Nutrition. It's quite a shame to buy poor quality food from a Vet's office and pay TOP dollar for it where there is better food available for the same amount.

When I brought my puppies to get their first vet exam, I was asked what food I was feeding them, I told her: "Bil Jac" but that I was switching them to Innova Puppy, of course she didn't know anything about human grade dog food. She suggested I try Eukanuba and gave me a free bag. I refused it, and thanked her for it. I then gave her a copy of the ingredients in Innova Puppy Food. Her reply was: " OMG! it's better than the food I eat."

That's why I feel out of place. I don't get that feeling at idog...

Too bad Dave, DB welcomes everyone with open arms.

Idog? I lurked in there a couple of times...it seems like people are bashing eachother constantly...

[Dave Kersh]

I don't think anyone here has any malice in what they write. I think we're all here because we care about our dogs. I do believe, however that in their zeal to evangelize about the wonders of super premium foods, some members tend to demonize anything that's not "human grade".
Why are you taking my comments so personal? It's not about you Dave, it's about the quality of a specific dog food/treat. We are all here to become better educated on how to best care for our beloved dogs, which includes Canine Nutrition.
I'm not taking anything personally and I'm not trying to bash anyone. It's not about you either, Maria, it's about an objective discussion on dog food. I agree that we should all be better educated about canine nutrition. IMO, that means discussing what's actually in the dog food any why one would personally not feed it to their pet. It does not include hyperbole like this:
All foods made by Bil Jac have the same garbage for ingredients.
List the ingredients. Tell us why you think they're bad. Don't suggest that the original poster was considering giving his dog garbage to eat. I guess that's what got to me. Let's discuss, not bash. Again, my dog gets BilJac frozen (which has completely different ingredients than the dry) once a week when we train, not as her main source of nutrition. I have no dog in this hunt except to make the discussion objective. With that in mind, here are the ingredients of BilJac dry:

Fresh Chicken By-Products (Organ Meat Only), Fresh Chicken, Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Fresh Chicken Liver, Brewers Dried Yeast, Cane Molasses, Eggs, Salt, Sodium Propionate (a preservative), DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Biotin, Choline Chloride, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Menaione, sodium Bisulfate Complex, (source of Vitamin K), D-Calcium Pantothenate, Manganous Oxide, Inositol, BHA (a preservative), Iron Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Cobalt Carbonate, Potassium Iodine, Sodium Selenite.

Not super premium. But certainly not garbage.
The first five ingredients of the frozen food are beef, beef by-products (organ meat only), cereal food fines, poultry, and poultry meal. Again, not what I would feed daily, but certainly not garbage.

This is 'Ol Roy. Many, many dogs eat this every day:

Ground yellow corn, meat and bone meal, corn gluten meal, soybean meal, animal fat (preserved with BHA and citric acid), chicken by product meal, animal digest (source of beef flavor), brewers rice, salt, caramel color calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, chlorine chloride, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, vitamin E supplement, niacin, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine monontrate, menadione sodium bisulfate complex (source of vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, vitamin D3 supplement, riboflavin supplement, cobalt carbonate, folic acid and sodium selenite

You and I would both agree that this is garbage. Consider for a moment that the original poster (or some lurkers) may have been considering BilJac as opposed to Ol' Roy (or some equally low-quality product). If BilJac is garbage, what's the difference? Might as well save some money...
My goal here is not to bash or to be disagreeable, but to keep dog food discussions objective and filled with facts, not hyperbole. I'm not taking any of this discussion personally and I hope you don't either.
Too bad Dave, DB welcomes everyone with open arms.
I never said I felt unwelcome, just a bit out of place. That's my problem, not the communities'... ;)

[Maria Juliano]

I don't think anyone here has any malice in what they write. I think we're all here because we care about our dogs. I do believe, however that in their zeal to evangelize about the wonders of super premium foods, some members tend to demonize anything that's not "human grade".

I'm not taking anything personally and I'm not trying to bash anyone. It's not about you either, Maria, it's about an objective discussion on dog food. I agree that we should all be better educated about canine nutrition. IMO, that means discussing what's actually in the dog food any why one would personally not feed it to their pet. It does not include hyperbole like this:

List the ingredients. Tell us why you think they're bad. Don't suggest that the original poster was considering giving his dog garbage to eat. I guess that's what got to me. Let's discuss, not bash. Again, my dog gets BilJac frozen (which has completely different ingredients than the dry) once a week when we train, not as her main source of nutrition. I have no dog in this hunt except to make the discussion objective. With that in mind, here are the ingredients of BilJac dry:

Fresh Chicken By-Products (Organ Meat Only), Fresh Chicken, Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Fresh Chicken Liver, Brewers Dried Yeast, Cane Molasses, Eggs, Salt, Sodium Propionate (a preservative), DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Biotin, Choline Chloride, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Menaione, sodium Bisulfate Complex, (source of Vitamin K), D-Calcium Pantothenate, Manganous Oxide, Inositol, BHA (a preservative), Iron Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Cobalt Carbonate, Potassium Iodine, Sodium Selenite.

Not super premium. But certainly not garbage.
The first five ingredients of the frozen food are beef, beef by-products (organ meat only), cereal food fines, poultry, and poultry meal. Again, not what I would feed daily, but certainly not garbage.

This is 'Ol Roy. Many, many dogs eat this every day:

Ground yellow corn, meat and bone meal, corn gluten meal, soybean meal, animal fat (preserved with BHA and citric acid), chicken by product meal, animal digest (source of beef flavor), brewers rice, salt, caramel color calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, chlorine chloride, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, vitamin E supplement, niacin, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine monontrate, menadione sodium bisulfate complex (source of vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, vitamin D3 supplement, riboflavin supplement, cobalt carbonate, folic acid and sodium selenite

You and I would both agree that this is garbage. Consider for a moment that the original poster (or some lurkers) may have been considering BilJac as opposed to Ol' Roy (or some equally low-quality product). If BilJac is garbage, what's the difference? Might as well save some money...
My goal here is not to bash or to be disagreeable, but to keep dog food discussions objective and filled with facts, not hyperbole. I'm not taking any of this discussion personally and I hope you don't either.

Dave,

If my definition: "garbage" of the ingredients in Bil Jac offended you, I'm sorry!

It makes me so mad ( personally ) that so many BIG dog food companies called their food nutritious and go on to charge great sums of money, when there are smaller companies out there who truly care about the well being of our dogs and embark on making a human grade dog food for the same or a $ 1.00-2.00 more. Why in the world shouldn't people know the truth about what the BIG dog food manufactures are doing to consumers and their dogs?

I have no dog in this hunt except to make the discussion objective.

I completely agree with you on this...


With that in mind, here are the ingredients of BilJac dry:

Fresh Chicken By-Products (Organ Meat Only), Fresh Chicken, Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Fresh Chicken Liver, Brewers Dried Yeast, Cane Molasses, Eggs, Salt, Sodium Propionate (a preservative), DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Biotin, Choline Chloride, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Menaione, sodium Bisulfate Complex, (source of Vitamin K), D-Calcium Pantothenate, Manganous Oxide, Inositol, BHA (a preservative), Iron Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Cobalt Carbonate, Potassium Iodine, Sodium Selenite.

Not super premium. But certainly not garbage.
The first five ingredients of the frozen food are beef, beef by-products (organ meat only), cereal food fines, poultry, and poultry meal. Again, not what I would feed daily, but certainly not garbage.

Here is what I learned about some of the ingredients found in Bil Jac:



-Chicken byproducts are an inconsistent ingredient because of the multiple organs used, their constantly changing proportions and their questionable nutritional value. Chicken Byproducts are much less expensive and less digestible than chicken meal.

-Chicken liver is the hepatic gland of a chicken.

-Chicken liver is used primarily to enhance the flavor of pet foods. The liver filters toxins from the blood and can potentially contain a disproportionate amount of these poisons.

-Brewer's dried yeast is the dried, non-fermentive, non-extracted yeast that results as a by-product of the brewing of beer and ale.

Although brewer's yeast is a good source of Vitamin B, it is a potential allergen for some animals.

-Cane molasses is a by-product of the manufacture of sucrose from sugar cane.


-BHA/BHT Butylated Hydroxyanisole (BHA) and Butylated Hydroxytoluene (BHT), both of which are chemical preservatives.

BHA and BHT have been banned from human use in many countries. In the US, they are still permitted in pet foods.

I'm familiar with the ingredients and the above is the reason I choose to call it "garbage."

Consider for a moment that the original poster (or some lurkers) may have been considering BilJac as opposed to Ol' Roy (or some equally low-quality product). If BilJac is garbage, what's the difference? Might as well save some money...

I just priced Bil Jac at Petco for $13.49 for a 7 lbs bag of dry kibble and at Petsmart for $ 11.00. I pay $10.50 for a 6.5 lbs bag of Innova Adult dry kibble. Save money? I don't think so Dave.

[Dave Kersh]

You're assuming that the choice for most people is between a super-premium and a premium. I think that the choice is usually between a premium and a low-grade brand.
We do not represent most pet owners. Most pet owners buy dog food at a grocery or warehouse store. Innova can be difficult to find in more rural areas; I had a hard time finding it in Dallas! Most people aren't going to make the effort to go to a special store for dog food.
If you were standing at Walmart and saw a person trying to decide between Bil Jac and Ol' Roy, what would your advice be (knowing that he's not going somewhere else to buy dog food)?
In this scenario, isn't Bil Jac the healthiest choice?
My point is, quality is a matter of perspective. Throwing around words like "garbage" only confuses the discussion when you could have posted this in the first place:
Here is what I learned about some of the ingredients found in Bil Jac:



-Chicken byproducts are an inconsistent ingredient because of the multiple organs used, their constantly changing proportions and their questionable nutritional value. Chicken Byproducts are much less expensive and less digestible than chicken meal.

-Chicken liver is the hepatic gland of a chicken.

-Chicken liver is used primarily to enhance the flavor of pet foods. The liver filters toxins from the blood and can potentially contain a disproportionate amount of these poisons.

-Brewer's dried yeast is the dried, non-fermentive, non-extracted yeast that results as a by-product of the brewing of beer and ale.

Although brewer's yeast is a good source of Vitamin B, it is a potential allergen for some animals.

-Cane molasses is a by-product of the manufacture of sucrose from sugar cane.


-BHA/BHT Butylated Hydroxyanisole (BHA) and Butylated Hydroxytoluene (BHT), both of which are chemical preservatives.

BHA and BHT have been banned from human use in many countries. In the US, they are still permitted in pet foods.

BTW, a source for this information would be great to have.

The liver filters toxins from the blood and can potentially contain a disproportionate amount of these poisons.
Didn't you suggest that liver was a healthy treat earlier in this thread?

[Maria Juliano]

You're assuming that the choice for most people is between a super-premium and a premium. I think that the choice is usually between a premium and a low-grade brand.
We do not represent most pet owners. Most pet owners buy dog food at a grocery or warehouse store. Innova can be difficult to find in more rural areas; I had a hard time finding it in Dallas! Most people aren't going to make the effort to go to a special store for dog food.
If you were standing at Walmart and saw a person trying to decide between Bil Jac and Ol' Roy, what would your advice be (knowing that he's not going somewhere else to buy dog food)?
In this scenario, isn't Bil Jac the healthiest choice?
My point is, quality is a matter of perspective. Throwing around words like "garbage" only confuses the discussion when you could have posted this in the first place:


BTW, a source for this information would be great to have.


Didn't you suggest that liver was a healthy treat earlier in this thread?


I'm not assuming anything.

We come here to to DB to learn about Dog Nutrition/Care and share information about best food to feed our dogs. Some may choose 1- Commercial Food, 2-Premium Food, 3- Super Premium. The choice is theirs... I don't have a problem with anyone choosing to feed what they wish to their dogs. That's their business, not mine. But if anyone should ask what the members think about a specific brand, I will then give "my" opinion based on what I know about that food.

Bil Jac is not only bad, but also very expensive. Knowing this, I feel compelled when someone asks in DB what "we" think about a specific food, ingredients, to tell them the facts regarding the quality and value of the food they are inquiring about.

Didn't you suggest that liver was a healthy treat earlier in this thread?
[/QUOTE]

In small quantities, 100% frozen liver, used as a treat ( IMO ) is safe. I tried feeding it to my dogs, but they don't like it as much as the 100% chicken strip/jerky.

I do not wish to reply to any more of your posts.

[Grace Erick]

Dave,

I know some high end brands can be difficult for people to find and Innova is really expensive. I would not even feed my dog that food all the time but switch off with other brands which I do, but with canned food. Switching foods can be good incase one food has toxins that will build up over a dog's lifetime.

I think we were all brought up with the big names like Purina and think of them as good brands, but really for no other reason that it's a popular name. I don't think the grocery store dog food buyers really understand what the quality of the food is that they are buying. It took me as a new dog owner 2-1/2 years ago a few months to catch on that there are better foods than the over priced Eukanuba I fed my dog. How many people would switch if they knew the grocery store brands were not great? I don't know, but I really think most don't have a clue as to what's in their dog's food. So to me, their buying grocery stores brands is not a choice as much as having a lack of knowledge where some people may switch if they knew better. Just a thought!

Bye, Grace

[Dave Kersh]

Fair enough, Maria.
If someone asks my opinion, I'll try to be as polite as possible and use facts instead of exaggeration to support my opinion. To each his own...
BTW, I haven't taken any of this discussion personally, why have you? Too bad. I'm always open for a discussion and you do have good information.
:)

[Dave Kersh]

How many people would switch if they knew the grocery store brands were not great?
I think a good many would if the facts were presented to them in the right way. I know I looked twice at what I was feeding when I knew the facts.